Talk to me about Tokai guitars !

Stoner-Riff · 2011-08-26T15:54:03+00:00

I just came across this link 10min ago, and could not believe it. Tokai is now in SA :applause: http://www.tokaiguitars.co.za/index.html Does someone know what they go for, over here ? I would love to see a cash price list. (for the entire range) So if someone can PM me one i would be very greatfull. Does anyone over here have a Tokai or two ? Any info very welcome guys-N-girls. Cheers

racman

Oh my ... is this still going on. Worse than the Canon vs Nikon debates in the Photog forums ☹ ☹ ☹ ? ?

At my level of electric playing I think they are both fantastic, although I have heard that ZarK once mentioned that Ibanez is better than Gibson, Fender AND Tokai. However that may just be a rumour.... ? ?

Of course the absolute ultimate would be a Tokai Body with a Gibson Neck and PuPs!!! ? ? ?

Ok, I'm outta here ! ?

Bob-Dubery

singemonkey wrote Most Gibsons are excellent guitars. Although I think that the final fit and finish of the Gibson USA models is very often unsatisfactory (from my own experience looking at the new ones). This may often mean a sometimes expensive trip to your guitar person to fix up. People on the forum have experienced this also. Almost always you end up with a great guitar afterwards. Tokai's great QC means that this is almost never necessary.

But usually if you can afford a Gibson you can also afford to sort these small issues out.

Somehow that doesn't satisfy me. You pay top dollar, you're entitled to expect a top job. For the price you pay for a high-end Les Paul there shouldn't be a need for an expensive trip to your guitar person. Small adjustments maybe, but that's all. This is not just being picky about cosmetic issues - at that price level the guitar should be made and assembled to a high degree of accuracy. You're entitled to expect that.

shaunf

ZarK wrote
vic wrote
ZarK wrote
Aubs1 wrote From what I gather, your gripe is with the price of the Gibbys, well ...... tough......
Nice one Aubs...

Next time please rather ask if you're not clear on what someone is actually saying before making such and uneducated statement!
to quote ZarK....

"If anyone wants to continue to make snotty remarks based on incorrect assumptions, have your childish fun".

"With all of that said, I'd still go for a Gibson LP over a Tokai LR if at a similar price point."

.....so the problem IS in the price or am I ALSO misinterpreting on what you're saying...just asking ???
I started typing another long reply to explain clearly and in kindness as to a child -but subsequently deleted it. This topic is just not important enough for me to keep explaining myself to people who'd rather entertain their own pre-conceived ideas. If you can't make your own logical deductions and figure out my reasoning from the ample material provided in my previous post(s), then so be it. I've wasted enough of my time on this topic.

All the guys did was ask you what specifically was wrong with the guitar in question. You respond with a whole lot of generalisation, defensiveness and sarcasm. Perhaps it is a good idea to not waste any more time if you can't be mature and debate something on its merit. Rather go and play that purple thing in your avatar and let the adults talk...

MikeM

@Zark, all trolling aside..

Can you be more specific about the finish flaws you found? We don't need to hear how you have experience with quality gear, everyone's opinion means something. And I am sure that some other members (and myself) would appreciate if you can substantiate what you're saying.

@Bob, my nut wasn't 100%, but besides that, mine has had no issues. I'm curious to here exactly what the folks have a problem with here.

vic

MikeM wrote @Zark, all trolling aside..

Can you be more specific about the finish flaws you found? We don't need to hear how you have experience with quality gear, everyone's opinion means something. And I am sure that some other members (and myself) would appreciate if you can substantiate what you're saying.

@Bob, my nut wasn't 100%, but besides that, mine has had no issues. I'm curious to here exactly what the folks have a problem with here.

Same here..... And I have/had quite a few as you know.
That's why I always interrogate when statements about Gibson quality are made. I want to know what the exact quality flaw is. One doesn't make statements like that and leave it hanging in the air.....

Apologies if this debate turned out to be somewhat "rowdy". Afterall the thread is really about Tokai......

ezietsman

A few points:

1. A guitar with a premium price tag should have premium construction, finish and setup. Thats all.

2. I believe mostly the build issues mentioned here are the Gibson USA models, NOT Historics and Custom Shop models.

3. I have played on more Tokais than Gibsons, and even though all the Tokai Love Rocks were exceptionally built, a small number of them weren't as good as the others and some were far better than most (Tokais). Of the Gibsons I have played, the memorable ones were Custom Shop models so great quality are to be expected. Mostly though, a Love Rock and a Les Paul (traditional?) is the same thing, different name, different price, same sound (as similar as two guitars with different pups can be, IMO).

We're splitting hair here. A brand new untouched Love Rock will only stay perfect for about a month if you're gigging, after that the perfect finish starts getting dinged, scratched worn etc. Then it doesn' matter anymore. However, I will not buy a new guitar if it needs fretwork done or if I can detect shoddy QC, esp if its expensive.

MikeM

That's some wisdom there Ez ? I echo pretty much everything you said there. (Except fretwork should be perfect on a new/young guitar).

I still want to hear about all these Gibson issues though.

ZarK

ezietsman wrote A few points:

1. A guitar with a premium price tag should have premium construction, finish and setup. Thats all.

2. I believe mostly the build issues mentioned here are the Gibson USA models, NOT Historics and Custom Shop models.

3. I have played on more Tokais than Gibsons, and even though all the Tokai Love Rocks were exceptionally built, a small number of them weren't as good as the others and some were far better than most (Tokais). Of the Gibsons I have played, the memorable ones were Custom Shop models so great quality are to be expected. Mostly though, a Love Rock and a Les Paul (traditional?) is the same thing, different name, different price, same sound (as similar as two guitars with different pups can be, IMO).

We're splitting hair here. A brand new untouched Love Rock will only stay perfect for about a month if you're gigging, after that the perfect finish starts getting dinged, scratched worn etc. Then it doesn' matter anymore. However, I will not buy a new guitar if it needs fretwork done or if I can detect shoddy QC, esp if its expensive.

ZarK

MikeM wrote That's some wisdom there Ez ? I echo pretty much everything you said there. (Except fretwork should be perfect on a new/young guitar).

I still want to hear about all these Gibson issues though.

I looked at frets, binding, neck joint, applied finish etc. etc. I don't know how else to put it? I did a visual quality inspection -same as I do with any guitar I pick up for the first time -to start forming a sense of the instrument. I immediately got the impression that more time should have been taken in the final finishing stages. Compared to the same inspection of a a similarly priced PRS Custom 24 I was also testing, the finish was not to the same standard at all -but the price was ...and that's the whole blown-out-of-proportion issue I'm having with Gibson LP's. I hope that satisfies or at least conveys my point?

I've made up my mind: I'll just keep looking for the right vintage example where finish would not influence my perceived value-for-money issue. If any of you are happy forking out so much for what you're getting, then that's just great because you are then in fact getting exactly the value for money that you should and I feel I'm not...

Now can we please get back on topic? This is just being rude...

MikeM

Thank you Zark, were the frets sharp or something? Not polished enough? Did the binding have some bleed on? Was it inconsistent or loose? How wrong can the neck joint be, especially once finished considering you can't see it? Having a bad quality finish is inexcusable, again, could you be specific with what the issue was?

This was not directed at you, I'd like to hear from other forum members (One has already let me know).

MikeM wroteI still want to hear about all these Gibson issues though.

AlanRatcliffe

ZarK wrote Now can we please get back on topic? This is just being rude...

Let me reinforce that... Get back on topic now.

Please. ?

Stoner-Riff

singemonkey wrote From experience we know that this Gibson quality debate gets very heated - with people imagining they're being called naive for buying them, which we're not. Several people on the forum, me included, own both and are happy. I would advise people to do there own quality comparisons to see.

Most Gibsons are excellent guitars. Although I think that the final fit and finish of the Gibson USA models is very often unsatisfactory (from my own experience looking at the new ones). This may often mean a sometimes expensive trip to your guitar person to fix up. People on the forum have experienced this also. Almost always you end up with a great guitar afterwards. Tokai's great QC means that this is almost never necessary.

But usually if you can afford a Gibson you can also afford to sort these small issues out. The main reason, I think, for going Tokai, is for the particular specs they make their guitars to. They favour the vintage models and are unconcerned with "progress" in these guitars. For vintage enthusiasts they offer more traditional choices over Gibson at lower price points. For example, Gibson has not made a truly solid back Les Paul in their Gibson USA lineup since 1983. There are custom shop models with solid backs that are excellent of course, but also much more expensive.

Tokai, in contrast makes solid back LPs right from the bottom of their MIJ range. They have other little traditional features - again, right from the bottom of the range - that Gibson USA reserved for their high end models. Whether "thumb-cutters" on the knobs or thin cutaway binding matters to you is, again, a pure question of preference. But Tokai definitely offers more options for the traditionalist (all their SGs are '61 types with deep bevels and neck joint for eg). And that's the real key. Preference.

I like this !
Thanks for the great info.
Great info from everyone so far . . . keep 'em comming guys !
Thanx to all !

Stoner-Riff

Hey Joe . . . thanks for the GAS ?

That top left hand Wine Red LP is sooo sexy !

vic

ZarK wrote
MikeM wrote That's some wisdom there Ez ? I echo pretty much everything you said there. (Except fretwork should be perfect on a new/young guitar).

I still want to hear about all these Gibson issues though.
I looked at frets, binding, neck joint, applied finish etc. etc. I don't know how else to put it? I did a visual quality inspection -same as I do with any guitar I pick up for the first time -to start forming a sense of the instrument. I immediately got the impression that more time should have been taken in the final finishing stages. Compared to the same inspection of a a similarly priced PRS Custom 24 I was also testing, the finish was not to the same standard at all -but the price was ...and that's the whole blown-out-of-proportion issue I'm having with Gibson LP's. I hope that satisfies or at least conveys my point?

I've made up my mind: I'll just keep looking for the right vintage example where finish would not influence my perceived value-for-money issue. If any of you are happy forking out so much for what you're getting, then that's just great because you are then in fact getting exactly the value for money that you should and I feel I'm not...

Now can we please get back on topic? This is just being rude...

ZarK you've made your point. Thanks. However may I ask...who actually derailed this Tokai topic? See 1st post on p2 LOL !!
OK, now back on track ?

Charlie4

@ Joe Moore - Are those price comparisons really accurate (30K Gibbys Vs 10K Tokais)?
If indeed so that is GREAT !
Won't have 30K anytime soon, students are always broke ?, but 10K is more realistic at this stage.
The finish of Mike M's Gibby, that's the one. 8)

MikeM

Charlie4 wrote @ Joe Moore - Are those price comparisons really accurate (30K Gibbys Vs 10K Tokais)?
If indeed so that is GREAT !
Won't have 30K anytime soon, students are always broke ?, but 10K is more realistic at this stage.
The finish of Mike M's Gibby, that's the one. 8)

Some people will disagree, but IMO it's more like R25k vs R15k for a custom shop quality instrument.

Tokai is the answer to a great instrument without paying a massive premium.

Stoner-Riff

If i can find a Tokai LP with the same beautifull plain top finnish as a Gibson LP R8, for an affordable price, i will be all over it.
I LOVE pain top LP's . . .

http://www.guitarphotographer.com/Background%20Images/les-paul-2-wallpaper.jpg <---- W O W

MikeM

Joe Moore wrote @ MikeM .. , apparently there is no " custom shop " at Tokai Guitars MIJ factories. All their models are made by the same people , to their pre- laid down QC standards.

So why did you get the LS160 and not an LS95? ?

@Stoner, check out the local stores ? You'll find some lovely tops on Tokais.

shaunf

I was told that the LS9x series bursts have a veneer over the cap to give it the grain/flame you see. Can anyone confirm?

Also do you get light Tokai LPs? The 2 I've tried were the heaviest LPs I've ever played by a long shot.

AlanRatcliffe

shaunf wrote I was told that the LS9x series bursts have a veneer over the cap to give it the grain/flame you see. Can anyone confirm?

Only the flame models have a maple veneer over a solid maple top. The plaintops are solid maple.

Also do you get light Tokai LPs? The 2 I've tried were the heaviest LPs I've ever played by a long shot.

All the models I have seen have been fairly lightweight without resorting to weight relief - impressive for one-piece bodies. In particular the LS150 I played (now owned by Singemonkey - the lucky man) was a fair bit lighter than the LS90 or LS95S. I wouldn't have called any of them heavy as LP style guitars go.

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