Cort vs. Ibanez for acoustic.

Stoner-Riff

Hey guys . . .

. . . i need help to decide between these two models.

As you know, it will be a "buy before you play" thing - welcome to P.E.

These are the two i am deciding between, because, BOTH have a solid/one piece MAHOGANY top.

Cort - http://www.cortguitars.com/_webapp_3846741/L450C

.....................................vs...................................

Ibanez - http://www.ibanez.com/AcousticGuitars/model-AC240OPN

Does anyone here own one of them ? Tested one ?

Any info about these two guitars will be VERY welcome.

Cheers

AlanRatcliffe

Haven't played either, but both have good reps for decent, consistent quality. Maybe a little better rep on the Ibanez. The Cort has the longer scale length, so will be a bit stiffer to play on for the same gauge. The Ibby looks a little nicer to my eye too.

VellaJ

Ok, well, I can't say I've played either of them. However, I do own a dreadnought Cort acoustic, mahogany back and sides, spruce top. Absolutely incredible sound, with that mahogany growl that it's developed over a few years... I would imagine the addition of the mahogany top would accentuate that even more...

A friend of mine owns an Ibanez all-mahogany acoustic. However, I'm assuming it's fairly entry-level, as I was rather disappointed when I played it, the sound was rather thin for such a good-looking and supposedly well-made guitar.

However, as I say, I haven't played your particular models. I'm a huge fan of Cort guitars (not necessarily the company...) because they are such fantastic value for money. I hope someone with more experience with Ibby's can help you out here...

Stoner-Riff

WOW, thanks for the fast reply's guys . . .

. . . keep 'em comming !

singemonkey

Check out the Cort thread.

Best to avoid them until they start treating their workers with a minimum of respect. It'll make a difference not just to the lives of struggling Cort workers, but also to workers in other guitar factories whose employers will wish to avoid following Cort's unwelcome publicity.

Many are great guitars, but you don't want to enjoy it at the expense of some very vulnerable people. Until they come right there are other guitar makers.

Bob-Dubery

Why do you want a mahogany top? I'm not saying that's an invalid choice, but there are reasons why spruce and cedar are the woods most commonly used for tops. There are sonic implications of a mahogany top. Mostly this is to do with the tone, as there are less overtones than with either spruce or cedar, and an attenuated bottom end. Some users report lower volume as well. Mahogany doesn't have the strength to thickness ratio of spruce or cedar, and so the tops must be cut thicker and this bears out reports of lesser volume (though volume isn't everything, and ther are other factors effecting volume). They do tend to "cut through " when played with other instruments - because of the strong mids and tops.

There are people who love mahogany topped acoustics, so it's not an invalid choice, but there are implications in terms of tone and I wonder if you've considered those?

Stoner-Riff

X-rated Bob wrote: Why do you want a mahogany top? I'm not saying that's an invalid choice, but there are reasons why spruce and cedar are the woods most commonly used for tops. There are sonic implications of a mahogany top. Mostly this is to do with the tone, as there are less overtones than with either spruce or cedar, and an attenuated bottom end. Some users report lower volume as well. Mahogany doesn't have the strength to thickness ratio of spruce or cedar, and so the tops must be cut thicker and this bears out reports of lesser volume (though volume isn't everything, and ther are other factors effecting volume). They do tend to "cut through " when played with other instruments - because of the strong mids and tops.

There are people who love mahogany topped acoustics, so it's not an invalid choice, but there are implications in terms of tone and I wonder if you've considered those?

Oh very good question :

All the acoustics that i have tried so far is wayyyy to trebly to my ears.
The only acoustic that i found, that sounded almost right, was a massive big bowl Ovation, but i can not gell with those guitars.
Atleast not when i play seated. (75% of the time, in other words)

I hope that the all-Mahog guitar (back, sides, and most importantly the top) will give me that much needed boost in low end that ALL the other guitars are lacking (...to my ears).

Bob-Dubery

Stoner Riff wrote: All the acoustics that i have tried so far is wayyyy to trebly to my ears.
The only acoustic that i found, that sounded almost right, was a massive big bowl Ovation, but i can not gell with those guitars.
Atleast not when i play seated. (75% of the time, in other words)

I hope that the all-Mahog guitar (back, sides, and most importantly the top) will give me that much needed boost in low end that ALL the other guitars are lacking (...to my ears).

I wouldn't bet on it. I'd think it's likely to be strong in the high and mid range.

Stay away from dreadnoughts as well - they tend to be quite middy.

Stay away from maple back and sides. I'm not saying there's anything WRONG with that, but those guitars are usually very bright and that's the opposite of what you want.

Typically, and all else being equal, a guitar with rosewood back and sides will be darker sounding than a guitar with mahogany back and sides. Walnut will be in between the two, maple brighter than either, and if you start getting into things like the Ibanez exotic wood series then you really want to play before you make your mind up.

I've got two spruce-topped acoustics. My Morgan is an OM, that's smaller and curvier than a typical dreadnought. Dark sounding, loads of overtones. My Larrivee is their "L" shape, bigger than the OM (especially between the end piece and the sound hole) but more rounded than a dreadnought, not unlike the classic Ovation shape (from the top anyway). That's a little louder, has more going on in the mid-range.

Good mahogany guitars develop a distinctive mid-range "growl" with age and playing. My Larrivee is starting to develop that now. Very nice. My two acoustics are about a year apart in age, and as they age and get more playing they are each developing distinct characters.

PS: I'm talking all solid wood guitars here. Laminate tops may be another ball game. However, let all the theory GUIDE you, but let your ears JUDGE. I found it helpful when considering a purchase to get somebody else to play the guitar whilst I stand a couple of meters back.

MikeM

Remember strings can have a drastic effect on the brightness of your tone too.

I would personally stick to the tried and tested spruce etc...

Bob-Dubery

MikeM wrote: Remember strings can have a drastic effect on the brightness of your tone too.

+1

Different types of strings make an acoustic sound different. Take a guitar strung with 80:20s, put phosphor bronze strings on - it will sound different. Not worlds away, but enough that you'll notice.

Stoner-Riff

X-rated Bob wrote:
Stoner Riff wrote: All the acoustics that i have tried so far is wayyyy to trebly to my ears.
The only acoustic that i found, that sounded almost right, was a massive big bowl Ovation, but i can not gell with those guitars.
Atleast not when i play seated. (75% of the time, in other words)

I hope that the all-Mahog guitar (back, sides, and most importantly the top) will give me that much needed boost in low end that ALL the other guitars are lacking (...to my ears).
I wouldn't bet on it. I'd think it's likely to be strong in the high and mid range.

Stay away from dreadnoughts as well - they tend to be quite middy.

Stay away from maple back and sides. I'm not saying there's anything WRONG with that, but those guitars are usually very bright and that's the opposite of what you want.

Typically, and all else being equal, a guitar with rosewood back and sides will be darker sounding than a guitar with mahogany back and sides. Walnut will be in between the two, maple brighter than either, and if you start getting into things like the Ibanez exotic wood series then you really want to play before you make your mind up.

I've got two spruce-topped acoustics. My Morgan is an OM, that's smaller and curvier than a typical dreadnought. Dark sounding, loads of overtones. My Larrivee is their "L" shape, bigger than the OM (especially between the end piece and the sound hole) but more rounded than a dreadnought, not unlike the classic Ovation shape (from the top anyway). That's a little louder, has more going on in the mid-range.

Good mahogany guitars develop a distinctive mid-range "growl" with age and playing. My Larrivee is starting to develop that now. Very nice. My two acoustics are about a year apart in age, and as they age and get more playing they are each developing distinct characters.

PS: I'm talking all solid wood guitars here. Laminate tops may be another ball game. However, let all the theory GUIDE you, but let your ears JUDGE. I found it helpful when considering a purchase to get somebody else to play the guitar whilst I stand a couple of meters back.

Thanx Bob.

I also do the standing back thing when i try to listen to a guitar, or even an amp.

One of the 'sweeter' guitars i tested was last year in Orlando.
It was a *Martin OM1 GT (think) Deff an OM1-something. It was $899.00 [R6100.00 ZAR] God knows what that would be in SA !
If i had the money, i would have bought it, but i lacked the funds, so i did not, but man, that guitar sounded sooooo GOOD !

The other reason i am looking at Mahogany top guitars, is that every othe international acoustic forum is telling me that Mahogany is a "dark tone wood", just see LP's vs Teles, and that your darkest acoustics will be an all Mahog body.
Makes sense to me . . . atleast on B&W !

* took a pic of that guitar, because it was that good sounding, lemme see if i can find it.

Stoner-Riff

The Martin on the far left.
OM1-something (from their 1 series) $899.00

The closest (so far) to the tone i have in my head.

Bob-Dubery

Stoner Riff wrote: One of the 'sweeter' guitars i tested was last year in Orlando.
It was a *Martin OM1 GT (think) Deff an OM1-something. It was $899.00 [R6100.00 ZAR] God knows what that would be in SA !
If i had the money, i would have bought it, but i lacked the funds, so i did not, but man, that guitar sounded sooooo GOOD !

Sitka spruce top, sapele back and sides. Tonally and visually sapele is similar to mahogany. OM body.... we talked about body shapes earlier. They effect the tone as well. Mahogany Martins (mahogany back and sides that is) are famous for developing the aforementioned "growl" as they play in.

The other reason i am looking at Mahogany top guitars, is that every othe international acoustic forum is telling me that Mahogany is a "dark tone wood", just see LP's vs Teles, and that your darkest acoustics will be an all Mahog body.

Hmmm..... "tone wood" usually refers to back and sides, but the term is vaguely defined. I've not met anybody who will tell me that Mahogany is darker than Rosewood. The comparison you cite is problematic because it's comparing ash (not usually used in acoustics) to mahogany but also single coil pups vs humbuckers, bolt on necks vs set necks, different styles of bridges.... loads of things to effect the tone there.

There's been some discussion about woods and tone on GFSA (you'll be surprised to learn ?)

At a get together last year we had a great opportunity for a tonewood comparison - 3 guitars all from the same maker, all same shape, same bracing etc, just different wood. They were all Larrivees
1) LV-05 - Spruce top, mahogany back and sides
2) LV-09 - Spruce top, rosewood back and sides
3) LV-10 - all koa (this would tonally most similar to an all mahogany guitar)

Now this wasn't about finding a "winner" because there isn't one. There are just differences that you can explore.

X-rated Bob wrote:
No clear winner IMO. They each do different things. Rosewood seems to have a more distinct bass, and a generally darker sound. The other two had more mid-range punch and more "sparkle" in the top-mids and tops. I thought the koa had really good tops. I think the mahogany and the koa might do better in an ensemble where they would cut through more.

But that's all IMO. This makes for a good, never-ending argument because there is no outright winner. However it was clear that the woods do make a difference - but I wouldn't say that one combination trumped the others.

My Morgan, which Keira speaks well of, is sitka spruce and east indian rosewood. But a different body shape than the Larrivee's listed above, and the construction differs in that it has a heavier top. That said it had more similarities with the ~~LV05~~ LV09 than with the other two. Being able to compare those three Larrivees (we sat in a circle and passed them around) was very interesting.

British luthier Nick Benjamin has some good notes on woods....
http://www.benjaminguitars.co.uk/woods.htm
Bear in mind that he's talking about solid wood, not laminates where the differences may be less pronounced.

So that's my 5c worth. Your money, your ears.... but I'd caution against buying on theory. Try to play those guitars, and some others. See what really does deliver what you want.

RE that Martin - you could sound out Marshall in Cape Town or Hugh's Fine Guitars in Johannesburg. I have no idea about the cost (though the 1 series are not that high up the Marshall food chain) but you'll pay the cost of a phone call or an email to find out.

Stoner-Riff

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/guitars/acoustic/buying-guide.php

. . . just came across this, 2min ago.

Stoner-Riff

Again Bob, thank you very much for the great info.

Much appreciated !

?

slyd

My 5c worth . . .
I get a bunch of acoustics in for a basic setup, and the most I've found set-up best, are Ibbos.

The better guitar wil set-up better and easier . . . . and (IMHO) many ibbo acoustics are a beaut to set-up.

As I said, IMHO only :-[

analogzealot

Hi,

As a proud and happy Cort owner, I would go definitely for the Cort.
Good quality, good value.
Regarding the poor factory workers, Cort manufactures guitars also for Ibanez... ?

In the end, take the one that sounds best for YOU
AnalogZealot

Stoner-Riff

Thanks guys . . .

. . . keep 'em comming.

StephenG

slyd wrote: My 5c worth . . .
I get a bunch of acoustics in for a basic setup, and the most I've found set-up best, are Ibbos.

The better guitar wil set-up better and easier . . . . and (IMHO) many ibbo acoustics are a beaut to set-up.

As I said, IMHO only :-[

maybe because the Corts are already set up before the sale..??? ?

personally i feel the brand YOU see the most in your shop for set up and repairs is the brand to be avoided.

Norman86

For tone and features, i still think tanglewood is better than cort or ibanez!