Questions RE Time signature

Bob-Dubery

First please listen to this extract from Richard Thompson's "Johnny's Far Away" http://www.box.net/shared/c2411mk6rxzad0s3n85p

Now this is interesting to me because I can count this two ways. There's a clear 4 beat pattern, but within that there is a faster 3 beat pattern.

Now, OK, one thing that occured to me was that it is in 4-4 but there are an awful lot of triplets being played. But if you used triplets that much wouldn't you want to write the piece out in something other than 4-4 so you don't have to note all those triplets, and wouldn't that then mean that the time signature is modified?

Also if you listen to the guitar and bass solos they seem to stick within that "3 inside of 4" timing, but when the fiddle comes in after the bass solo it seems not to - that makes sense in the 4-4 context and seems to ignore the fast triple beat.

So what time signature is this in? And is there something polyrhythmic going on here?

Wizard

I hear it in 3's.

Warren

X-rated Bob wrote First please listen to this extract from Richard Thompson's "Johnny's Far Away" http://www.box.net/shared/c2411mk6rxzad0s3n85p

Now this is interesting to me because I can count this two ways. There's a clear 4 beat pattern, but within that there is a faster 3 beat pattern.

Now, OK, one thing that occured to me was that it is in 4-4 but there are an awful lot of triplets being played. But if you used triplets that much wouldn't you want to write the piece out in something other than 4-4 so you don't have to note all those triplets, and wouldn't that then mean that the time signature is modified?

Also if you listen to the guitar and bass solos they seem to stick within that "3 inside of 4" timing, but when the fiddle comes in after the bass solo it seems not to - that makes sense in the 4-4 context and seems to ignore the fast triple beat.

So what time signature is this in? And is there something polyrhythmic going on here?

It's a 4/4 swung rhythm, like you hear in many blues numbers.

Instead of a straight 4/4 where you count:

1-and-2-and-4-and-4

You can count it like this:

1-and-a-2-and-a-3-and-a-4

Which matches the triplets you're hearing exactly.

AlanRatcliffe

It's more of a shuffle - the note divisions are definitely triplets (where swing implies a triplet feel, shuffle the divisions are more precise). It goes to half time during the slide guitar part, but stays a shuffle.

Warren

Alan Ratcliffe wrote It's more of a shuffle - the note divisions are definitely triplets (where swing implies a triplet feel, shuffle the divisions are more precise). It goes to half time during the slide guitar part, but stays a shuffle.

Thanks Alan, I was never 100% sure on the outright difference between a shuffle and a swing rhythm.

AlanRatcliffe

Well... that's how I understand the difference. I'm a musically unedjumicated type, so It's possible I am wrong... :-[

[deleted]

Well, from my theory knowledge you get "simple" and "compound" time. Compound time is replacing the one, let's say crotchet, beat with three quavers. So if you're dealing with four groups of three quavers the time signature would be 12 over 8.

Here's a long winded Wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature

FruitarGeek

Im actually hearing a 2/4, due to the heavy pull by the drums (and chord/note change) on every 2. It then seems to move into that triplet feel you were discussing which most often is a 12/8 feel, due to the fact that is still confines within the 4/4 or 2/4 in this case.