Retail price with discount or lower sticker price?

Mr-M · 2011-06-29T15:25:39+00:00

There's been a lot of heated debate lately about SA prices for guitar gear. One of the things that kept coming up (aside from the obvious), is that a store's...

Retail price with discount or lower sticker price?

DonovanB

I'd much prefer music stores to stick to retail so I don't feel like I'm robbing them if I get a huge discount or push for one. They need to make money to stay open and provide us with gear…

Then again, don't think of music gear as normal retail, think of guitars etc like you think of motor vehicles. High price yet low stock.
I'm undecided

Skywalker

Cool topic.

I'm with Alan on this one ?

For me it's a cool feeling to cruise into the local music store and have the sales people sort you out because you're a regular and you support them.

I've had plenty of my mates ask for help and advice on buying gear - from drum sticks and strings to guitars and drum kits - over the years. I've actually done the homework for them (and the sales person ?), gone into said shop with my mate and got a sweet deal on some cool gear for them. The shop is happy, my mate is happy and I'm happy that I could help someone out and keep getting good service and good prices for gear.

I'm not a big fan of haggling. I just want to know that I'll get great service,great gear and great prices for supporting the shop of my choice.

I must disagree with what you are saying about a regular or larger customer getting a better price. I think that in a coffee shop that holds. Give that dude who comes in everyday a free sarmie once in a while.

You've got to compare apples to apples here I think. Different industries selling completely different products have different ways of doing bussines and obviously different pricing and discount structures. It's all up to the individual shop owner and type of industry /product in the end I guess :-\

still gotta get a yes from a pick n pay cashier though

Classic. Reckon I'll try that just for a laugh.

"Hi There. I think this block of cheddar is a bit on the pricey side. Could I possibly haggle you down a rand or 2?"
"Or maybe you could throw in a tomato and an onion as I have over R500 worth of groceries in my trolley?"
Not so sure that will work ?

chris77

Guitar store pricing is a bit of a running joke I'm afraid. Kinda like those Verimark adds - But wait! That's not all! You also get yadayadayada blah blah... I find it lame and insulting actually. There might have been a time when pros and regulars could qualify for a 'loyalty' discount or whatever, but that time has gone. Music store discount is an open secret now and anybody, regardless of competence or loyalty can google an online price for reference, so who are they fooling by inflating their markup? Naah dude, tell me the rrp is X, you pay cash I sell it to you for X - Y% and if you buy more than Z qty of an item or R value in total, you get it at X - Q%.

vic

Donovan Banks wrote: I'd much prefer music stores to stick to retail so I don't feel like I'm robbing them if I get a huge discount or push for one. They need to make money to stay open and provide us with gear…

Then again, don't think of music gear as normal retail, think of guitars etc like you think of motor vehicles. High price yet low stock.
I'm undecided

? you're kidding hey Don...?

deefstes

I'm not sure I understand why putting price tags on stock items and being able to offer discounts are mutually exclusive. Anyone care to enlighten me?

DonRoos

In addition to my earlier comments - sparked off by another comment.

So my mate asks me for help on a good guitar so I find him one at my favourit store and tell him what the price to me is. He then goes in and gets a much higher price. He then tells me I am messing with him. I then have to take time out to go with him to the store to ensure he gets the price quoted me. We all land up with egg on our face and the new customer buys from a store he knows was doing him in.

A loose-loose situation.

AlanRatcliffe

DonRoos wrote: We all land up with egg on our face and the new customer buys from a store he knows was doing him in.

Funny - I would have looked at that as you being a preferred customer who gets better prices than the average guy and your friend being lucky to take advantage of your better than usual prices.

Sales (selling or buying) is all about relationships. I often arrange deals for friends, but make sure to set up the deal with one specific salesperson and send them to him. My friend gets a better than usual price, the sales guy gets more sales, so it raises my stock with both parties involved and everyone walks away happy.

chris77

Well, if I need to be connected to enjoy the privilege of a good 'discount', then count me out. That just strenghtens my perception that the consumers that aren't part of the club is being exploited. (Great if you're in the circle, not so great if you're not hey.) It reminds me of these holiday towns where some places have a local price and a tourist price. Great idea, but now the tourists that know locals can get the cheaper prices simply by going to the shop with a local. Word gets around and before long the unconnected visitors all bring as much food and drinks as they can from home to avoid being ripped of. And then the locals start moaning about how them not supporting local is killing their livelihood.

Jacquesg4j

Any salesman knows that relationship is 75% of the sale. Okay no I just made that up but it is also very true. If I buy something new, I always buy it from the same guy at the same place. Even if I go to another shop and find something I like, I go to my local regular shop to buy it. When I walk in there I am greeted on my name and get personal attention. I also know that I get a huge discount from them, and if I can find something for a better price, they will always try and beat it, and I don't have to give a written quote, they trust me. They have repaired some of my gear for free, they even gave me a brand new power supply once when I blew mine out of guarentee. I will always keep buying from them, they help me, I help them. I know that I probably paid more than someone else would have for the first thing I bought from them, but right now I don't mind because now I get special attention. And this is not a big musical retailer, its an average sized store.

I also remembered an instance when I played a tokai they had, I then aske me what they would charge me for it, so they gave me a price which was way below tag price, but I could not afford it at the time. I then told one of my bandmates about it and what it cost and all, then he went out to buy it. Inicially they asked him more than what they asked me but then he said that they gave me (his bandmate) a different price. They then sold him the guitar at the same price they told me. But the next time I walked in there the sales guy kindly suggested that I don't tell other people what I pay for stuff. So really, I have invested a lot to receive this kind of service, and if they shoul charge other folkes more to give it to me, I'm cool with that. They also charged me more once to make someone else happy. I have climbed the client ladder and I am never starting at the bottom somewhere else again!

Wizard

Just tell me the price.
Don't make it complicated.

Norman86

Music stores cant operate if they put the correct price on the product? really? why can every other kind of store operate just fine then??
why can music stores in other countries give the correct price and still stay open??

as i have said before, you go into a store like pick n pay, there is one price. you do not get discount, unless its on special.

the discount story works on my nerves, irks me to no end, and puts me in a foul mood!
i want the correct price, not some made up price!

because there is nothing worse than the music shop having a sale, but you're actually paying the same price!
you see 30% off all items in store... so, with the current trend, is that then an extra 30% off of the 30% you would have gotten?? i dont think so! more like normal retail to me!

Music shops screw themselves over in this way, and ja, they need consistency.
there can only be consistency if the correct price is on the sticker in the beginning, without having to haggle a better price!

OBVIOUSLY, pro's and big buyers will get discounts and sales incentives.
we arent stupid when it comes to that!

Everyone shops where they get the lowest (true) price.
this way, people will still vote with their pockets...
and if after getting the actual price on sticker, and the consumer decides its not the price they're willing to pay, they'll go to the next shop.

loyalty goes to the store with the lowest price for the same product... except when the shop has pissed you off no end! then you dont mind paying that little bit more to never have to set foot in their store!
Yes, just like with checkers and pick n pay and ok bazaars, there will be slight price differences... but not on the current scale!

Bottom line... correct price to start off with, no haggling allowed.
My life will be a better place with no more: "let me get you a price on that... retail is Rxxx, your price is now Ryyy."

chris77 wrote: Well, if I need to be connected to enjoy the privilege of a good 'discount', then count me out. That just strenghtens my perception that the consumers that aren't part of the club is being exploited. (Great if you're in the circle, not so great if you're not hey.) It reminds me of these holiday towns where some places have a local price and a tourist price. Great idea, but now the tourists that know locals can get the cheaper prices simply by going to the shop with a local. Word gets around and before long the unconnected visitors all bring as much food and drinks as they can from home to avoid being ripped of. And then the locals start moaning about how them not supporting local is killing their livelihood.

Well said!!!

Skywalker wrote: I'm not a big fan of haggling. I just want to know that I'll get great service, great gear and great prices for supporting the shop of my choice.

So you cannot get great service and great gear with a correct price to begin with??

Normans Music offers you a guitar valued at R10000.00, but you know what, for you, im gonna give you 50% off.
Skywalkers guitars marks the same guitar at R8000.00, but for you, 37.5 off...

Who are you going to buy from?? Normans Music because i offered you a better discount? please say you will!!!

BluJu wrote:
Jacquesg4j wrote: I totally agree with Alan on this... I would rather know that I get more discount at my local store than someone else that oes not buy there often. And this is the way that stores can give us (the regulars) a better price on stuff. But then again, I don't have a problem asking what the best price is they can give me.
I don't know about that. It bothers me that when a mate calls me and says "dude I want a steel string for under 2 grand" or whatever I can't just say go to where and where and they will give you some great advice.
I have to make sure that he is not getting taken for a ride. It doesn't bother me one bit that Joe-Whoever can get the same price for a good as me at TOMS even though I've spent untold fortunes there.
What does bother me is James who knows the salesman a bit better than I do and has good haggling skills can get it cheaper than I can.

Exactly!!!!!

Bob-Dubery

X-rated Bob wrote: All I know at present is that the sticker price has nothing to do with reality. I get discounts when I don't ask,

Which is not a complaint! But in some cases the price has come down so quickly (like seconds) that I wondered why they were wasting money on stickers.

Bob-Dubery

deefstes wrote: I'm not sure I understand why putting price tags on stock items and being able to offer discounts are mutually exclusive. Anyone care to enlighten me?

+1

Indeed the stores are prudent to create a situation in which they reward regular customers, and the customers are prudent to take advantage of such a situation. It's a mutual win.

Bob-Dubery

chris77 wrote: Well, if I need to be connected to enjoy the privilege of a good 'discount', then count me out. That just strenghtens my perception that the consumers that aren't part of the club is being exploited. (Great if you're in the circle, not so great if you're not hey.) .

Chris, it's not like that at all. If I see you coming into my shop on a regular basis I give you a consideration in appreciation of your loyalty. Simple.

Wizard

I'd speculate that the reason for this practice is to prevent direct price comparisons and encourage interaction with salesmen in the sales process.
Cell phone suppliers do a similar thing by confusing the price with special offers and extra toys and different packages.
A well defined price leads to buying by price; reduces the advice and sales opportunity and erodes margin.

Squonk

The only problem for me is that at my local Music shop, there is a different salesman everytime I go, so I dont really get treated as a regular.

Although the discount thing happened when I was oohing and ahhing over a line 6 product, and then the calculators came out.

I went to Music Mate in Cresta to buy some microphone cables(not even for me but for the wifes school) and the salesman offered me the sticker price but when I asked a question, he couldn't answer and called the senior dude and then the calculator came out.

So do some oohing and ask complex questions, might just get a discount

Bob-Dubery

For some things I much prefer real-world shops to on-line stores - even though I can save money up front buying on line. For books and CDs I'll buy on-line and go where the price, selection and service are good. For guitars I want to be able to walk into a shop, talk to a sales person, maybe chat to a technician, hold it in my hands etc etc.

I think this needs to apply to choices between shops as well. They don't all give the same level of service and they don't all have the same attitude to looking after a good guitar once you've bought it.

These are differentators. They're also soft - you can't put a number to them but they are part of the value proposition that shop offers. That value may vary from person to person.

I understand the need, indeed the wisdom of giving an extra consideration to valued regular customers. However some shops are completely puzzling to deal with.

A couple of years ago I went into a particular shop on a whim. I'd never been in there before. Didn't know anybody who worked there. I was just curious. Some sales guy starts helping me, showing me around, showing me a couple of guitars.

The usual stuff, this one here is X rands "for you". I'm not offended by this kind of stuff, but I don't take it seriously either. I bet he says that to all the boys (as well as the girls).

Then he takes me into the "high end" room and I see this one guitar and I say "what's that" and he says "take it for a spin" and I think "boy! This is really something!". How much? The sales guy, let's call him "Fred" says "about 40 grand."

Well that's not small change, but it IS something a bit special. I tell him I need to think a bit before spending that kind of tom.

I go home and I do think a bit and I am sure that the guitar is something special. So during the week I call a friend who will give me a good 2nd opinion and is somebody whose tastes on acoustic guitars run close to mine (though his judgement is quicker and surer) and we make a plan to go back and give this guitar another test drive.

So we do, and we give it a good, long test drive and we are both convinced that the guitar is indeed very special. Fred isn't around, somebody I'll call "Bert" is talking to us. He's higher up the food chain than Fred and is helping us out because we've expressed an interest in a guitar with a non-trivial price tag.

So I tell Bert that I'm quite seriously interested. He says "well it's about 80 grand but of course there will be a discount, especially if you pay via EFT".

What? How did this guitar get so much more expensive in 7 days?

So I tell him that
a) Fred had indicated a very different price to me
b) That whilst I think it's a very fine guitar 80 grand is just not realistic. I can buy a very nice collector's item type guitar with Brazilian rosewood etc from Hugh's Fine Guitars for that, stick it under my bed and sell it for a good profit in a few years time.

He says well, he can't vouch for anything Fred says, and maybe Fred was thinking of some other guitar because the sticker price for that guitar is 80 grand though there is some room for negotiating.

I've lost interest by now. 40 grand was already going to be a stretch, 80 less some discount is too rich for my blood. The whole thing has just been a waste of everybody's time.

Eventually they sell me another guitar that I'd seen the week before - this time at a very low price. I'm not unhappy with the deal, but it's like the reverse of the previous negotiations. I tell them I think it's not that bad a guitar but they're not going to sell it because it quite clearly needs the truss rod adjusted and the rusty strings aren't helping either. They whip it straight down to the workshop ("for you"), ask me what strings I like and string it up with those exact strings. Now it's quite good. They're saying all they did was restring it, but it's obvious that they tweaked the truss rod as well - why don't they just say they've done that?

Then before I even start talking about whether I'm interested or not, Bert takes the sticker off of the guitar, tells me it's wrong and knocks 2 grand off of the price. Then before I can blurt anything out he says "I'll throw in a hard case." Now the deal is really looking guite good but he's not done yet. He'll do the truss rod, saddle and nut to my liking and by the way what picks do I favour?

So I end up with a nice guitar at a good price, and I don't want to complain about that, but I'm a bit wary of that shop now because doing business with them seems like a pretty random affair. They might as well decide prices by rolling dice or arm wrestling or something.

I understand the need, indeed the wisdom of being flexible with pricing so that you can build loyalty and so on, but this was just bizarre.

AlanRatcliffe

Comparisons to grocery retailers don't fly - completely different products, market, etc.. Or would you rather pay cut to the bone prices, but replace sales staff with shelf stackers and a range of products with only the cheapest two or three options available? Your average can of Koo beans isn't much different from other brands and you rarely have to enquire about warrantee backup or repair, or ask how to set it up with the Eskort sausages you already own either...

There have been a few instances in the last few years where I have been quoted "Nett" prices (particularly on esoteric high tech items). I hate it because those prices are fixed and I know I am paying more than I would if the price were marked up normally. Then I start looking round for viable alternatives and if there are any, I will take them. Any pro knows there is more to these products than the price.

Jack-Flash-Jr

I would prefer final price. I get the whole loyal customer thing but at some point there's exploitation taking place. If I, as a teenager with limited knowledge of guitars, limited access to internet etc. think I'm getting a good deal when I'm offered 10% discount when the actual generally agreed price is less 30% then I am getting ripped off and it's unethical. Yes I agreed to the price but that doesn't make it right.
I often see mothers taking kids into shops to buy gear and just know that they are not going to get a fair deal. Yes, if I am a regular customer and get on with the guys plus know my stuff, by all means throw in a pack of strings every now and then. Just don't sell me a guitar for R5000 when the same guitar just went to a stars in the eyes kid for R7500. I'll be pissed off on their behalf, not gloating on how connected/preferred I am.

Jacquesg4j

I see Alan said something as well while I was typing but here goes my views as typed before my internet came to standstill...

Norman86 wrote: sometimes i think to myself, have i ever read such bull when reading some of these comments!
Music stores cant operate if they put the correct price on the product? really? why can every other kind of store operate just fine then??
why can music stores in other countries give the correct price and still stay open??

Dude, seriously... If you don't agree with someone's views you can't call it bull. It's their view and an opinion and there are many different ones in here... Although you may not agree, rather give your contradicting view and leave it at that!

And remember, a store like pick n pay or any big South African retailer of kind have a big client base and sell relatively cheap stuff that any person needs to survive... You can not compare a store like that with a musical instrument store, or, for example, a store that sells jet skis or golfing gear or what ever! If you don't buy food, you don't live, if you don't want to buy from them, 100 000 others will, so they don't care!

Lets look at if from a simple business view... They have to sell stuff, with a certain mark-up added, to make money and survive. Small common "everyday" things like picks or strings or whatever have a more consistent price, but also, they have the higher mark-up percentages because they sell these things everyday and you need it to play your instrument. Different things have different mark-ups. But lets say that a store has to sell a guitar with a 50% mark-up to survive and make money. YES they will put the price on the tag with a 70% markup, so that some folks will pay a 70% mark-up, others 60%, and if I am a regular appreciated customer I might only pay a 25% mark-up. They DONT necessarily make most money from regular customers that have already climbed their musical "life" ladder and will buy a 20k guitar from them rather than Jannie than buys his first ElCheapo R500 guitar from them.

I remember one of the first things I bought from my shop was a Boss ME-20. I still have the box with the price on and the receipt with what I paid for it. I just phoned them to check what the retail price is NOW on an ME-20 and how much they would charge ME for one. They had none in stock but phoned me back with a price and I then had to ask they guy what the tag price would be if they brought one into stock now... Did a quick calculation and on the first purchase I made with them received a 13.2% "discount" (Mind you I did buy a couple of things that day but I only have the Boss' box with the tag still on so this would have also affected the "discount" somewhat), and right now the difference between tag price and what I am "paying" is 23.4% (the tag price is much higher now though). This was not from my regular sales person, so I phoned again and spoke to the regular guy, went through the same procedure , he gave me a tag price and what I would be paying, difference being 28.1%. So am I complaining that I once paid more for something so that I get special prices now?? NOOO! I buy way more stuff now than what I did back then!

Still, I am not getting a certain % discount, it does not seem so, but I understand why not, different things have higher mark-ups and allow higher discounts!