How to get into the music industry

Keira-WitherKay

So before any advice or tips can be shared or offered a few questions for you stu

1.what part of the music biz do you want to enter . It's a diverse industry .

2. How old are you

3. What genre you hoping to work it

4. Are you really sure you wanna do music as a career , i often get asked by students how to go pro and i tell them the same i'm telling you . If you can do and be happy doing anything else as a career then do it and do music as a semi pro. But if music is your only interest and your life defining passion . Then become a pro muso but only once you understand the industry and realise that skill and talent has little to do with financial success in music biz some of the most talented muso's i know struggle to find gigs and few of us pro's ever make the big time or get so close that you can smell it only to have the deals fall thru or get exploited . And for many of us pro's like me , just making a steady enough income to live a decidedly middle class life is often the best you can hope for . Yes a few make it big but most can't afford to live as pro muso's without extra careers .

So i won't scare you off but i will be the one person on this forum to tell you how it really is and not sugar coat it And if i can help any i will but you need to be more specific

Averatu

-I've found the sending demos to competitions and battle of band setups rather ridiculous and ineffective. Meeting the judges criteria generally seems more important than actual originality or quality of songs. Either that or the voting is rigged. The bands and muso's that do 'make it', do so because of good songs and and hard work.
-I was approached in 2006 by a a female SAMA nominated artist to help work on her songs and record all the guitar parts for her second album. She was very competent on the keys, but her songs where really lame, and her singing was bad to the point of embarrassment, I turned her down. I later learnt from the studio she recorded at that her approach was rather simple. She recorded her 'album', then took it to all the majors and harassed them multiple times a day until someone signed her, then she went to the radio stations and harassed them until they play listed it, then she went to the SAMA board and harassed them until she was nominated, which she used as leverage with her label to make a video, which I unfortunately saw late one night on SABC. She never did the second album.
The point is she took herself very seriously, and if her music had been better she would have been a huge success.

Averatu

Keira WitherKay wrote: So before any advice or tips can be shared or offered a few questions for you stu

1.what part of the music biz do you want to enter . It's a diverse industry .

2. How old are you

3. What genre you hoping to work it

4. Are you really sure you wanna do music as a career , i often get asked by students how to go pro and i tell them the same i'm telling you . If you can do and be happy doing anything else as a career then do it and do music as a semi pro. But if music is your only interest and your life defining passion . Then become a pro muso but only once you understand the industry and realise that skill and talent has little to do with financial success in music biz some of the most talented muso's i know struggle to find gigs and few of us pro's ever make the big time or get so close that you can smell it only to have the deals fall thru or get exploited . And for many of us pro's like me , just making a steady enough income to live a decidedly middle class life is often the best you can hope for . Yes a few make it big but most can't afford to live as pro muso's without extra careers .

So i won't scare you off but i will be the one person on this forum to tell you how it really is and not sugar coat it And if i can help any i will but you need to be more specific

Agreed. In fact, what music biz?

vic

stu wrote: Im sure there are a few people on the forum who are trying to push thier way through to fame. I want to do that too but i dont even know where to get started.
I saw a page in the citizen saying they want to review people demos so I was thinking of sending some of my stuff through.

But please dont tell me I cant do it and that its impossible. I have to to try and make this work because everything else I had planed as a career is not going to work out.

One way of getting into the Industry is to work (and learn as much as possible) in a recording studio. That means you'll have to do some courses in Sound engineering first...how does that grab you ?

deebee

I have spoken to a few muso's here in Cape Town with the intention of trying to get an interview with a deposition of like minded people, with someone who has a bit of clout at the SABC, to try to get them to change their playing structure. If a certain percentage of songs played every hour had to be by SA artists, and not some foreigner, then the entire industry would have to pick up. It is bad news that for any SA artist to ''make it'', they have to leave the country. Money is what would have to be the key factor, but, if the industry could be grown decently, and fairly, then the government stands to score financially - this is the angle to use - but, sadly everyone that i talk to is brow beaten into believing that nothing can/will change. If all of the ''big boys'', studios, record companies, SAMRA would get together and approach the SABC, then it is possible. I am more than happy to go knocking on doors in Green Point, BUT, one lonely voice might not have too much impact. What say you all.

MIKA-the-better-one

Getting into the music industry? Well in SA there is little industry, and what does exist is run by an elite crew of people not very concerned about music.

If you want ot submit songs to radio in SA I can help you...... Simply walk into UJFM, TUKS, and other University Radio and say "I have a band, and I want to get a song playlisted"
Then they will take your song and maybe play it twice before they throw the CD in the trash, or lose it.

You could try 5fm, and maybe they will even like your music, but not before they ask you to edit half the song away to be more "Radio Friendly"

So what I am saying is "Submitimg songs" is not the smartest way to go!

If you want to go somewhere in music as a artist with your music you have to create a PRODUCT...... Not a demo (not being mean just how it is)
the second you say demo you really lower yourself in ranking.

You have to create a Product (Artist) with its music, and personality. Then market it with the upmost confidence.

Truthfully its not just something you go "hey I will do this" and the next day its done. If you care you will slug it out, get turned down a million times, get laughed at, be embaressed, and more. And then maybe you will get somewhere.

deebee wrote: I have spoken to a few muso's here in Cape Town with the intention of trying to get an interview with a deposition of like minded people, with someone who has a bit of clout at the SABC, to try to get them to change their playing structure. If a certain percentage of songs played every hour had to be by SA artists, and not some foreigner, then the entire industry would have to pick up. It is bad news that for any SA artist to ''make it'', they have to leave the country. Money is what would have to be the key factor, but, if the industry could be grown decently, and fairly, then the government stands to score financially - this is the angle to use - but, sadly everyone that i talk to is brow beaten into believing that nothing can/will change. If all of the ''big boys'', studios, record companies, SAMRA would get together and approach the SABC, then it is possible. I am more than happy to go knocking on doors in Green Point, BUT, one lonely voice might not have too much impact. What say you all.

What do you propose they play instead? There is not that much music in SA that they can play, maybe a handful of bands have radio quality material. You cant expect them to go and put 7 stukke silver on radio, and be proud of it. Most of the music from SA is a direct copy of overseas, so why not just play the real thing?
5fm has there Live @ 5 show which I think is great. MK89 plays pretty much all SA music, and look how bad it is 90% of the time.

Averatu

MIKA the better one wrote: Getting into the music industry? Well in SA there is little industry, and what does exist is run by an elite crew of people not very concerned about music.

If you want ot submit songs to radio in SA I can help you...... Simply walk into UJFM, TUKS, and other University Radio and say "I have a band, and I want to get a song playlisted"
Then they will take your song and maybe play it twice before they throw the CD in the trash, or lose it.

You could try 5fm, and maybe they will even like your music, but not before they ask you to edit half the song away to be more "Radio Friendly"

So what I am saying is "Submitimg songs" is not the smartest way to go!

If you want to go somewhere in music as a artist with your music you have to create a PRODUCT...... Not a demo (not being mean just how it is)
the second you say demo you really lower yourself in ranking.

You have to create a Product (Artist) with its music, and personality. Then market it with the upmost confidence.

Truthfully its not just something you go "hey I will do this" and the next day its done. If you care you will slug it out, get turned down a million times, get laughed at, be embaressed, and more. And then maybe you will get somewhere.

deebee wrote: I have spoken to a few muso's here in Cape Town with the intention of trying to get an interview with a deposition of like minded people, with someone who has a bit of clout at the SABC, to try to get them to change their playing structure. If a certain percentage of songs played every hour had to be by SA artists, and not some foreigner, then the entire industry would have to pick up. It is bad news that for any SA artist to ''make it'', they have to leave the country. Money is what would have to be the key factor, but, if the industry could be grown decently, and fairly, then the government stands to score financially - this is the angle to use - but, sadly everyone that i talk to is brow beaten into believing that nothing can/will change. If all of the ''big boys'', studios, record companies, SAMRA would get together and approach the SABC, then it is possible. I am more than happy to go knocking on doors in Green Point, BUT, one lonely voice might not have too much impact. What say you all.
What do you propose they play instead? There is not that much music in SA that they can play, maybe a handful of bands have radio quality material. You cant expect them to go and put 7 stukke silver on radio, and be proud of it. Most of the music from SA is a direct copy of overseas, so why not just play the real thing?
5fm has there Live @ 5 show which I think is great. MK89 plays pretty much all SA music, and look how bad it is 90% of the time.

Its all a result of the old record industry in SA, the 'majors' never developed any artists locally, only imported finished product from the parent company in Europe/the States. Hence the local industry is under developed, and still everything local is looked down on as inferior.

MIKA-the-better-one

Also consider the assumption that one needs a Record company to go forward.
I find there is this assumption that a band must ......record a demo------- Pass it to a record company-------- they will then grow you into a artist---------- success!!!
This is not how bands work these days

stu

Keira WitherKay wrote: So before any advice or tips can be shared or offered a few questions for you stu

1.what part of the music biz do you want to enter . It's a diverse industry .

2. How old are you

3. What genre you hoping to work it

4. Are you really sure you wanna do music as a career , i often get asked by students how to go pro and i tell them the same i'm telling you . If you can do and be happy doing anything else as a career then do it and do music as a semi pro. But if music is your only interest and your life defining passion . Then become a pro muso but only once you understand the industry and realise that skill and talent has little to do with financial success in music biz some of the most talented muso's i know struggle to find gigs and few of us pro's ever make the big time or get so close that you can smell it only to have the deals fall thru or get exploited . And for many of us pro's like me , just making a steady enough income to live a decidedly middle class life is often the best you can hope for . Yes a few make it big but most can't afford to live as pro muso's without extra careers .

So i won't scare you off but i will be the one person on this forum to tell you how it really is and not sugar coat it And if i can help any i will but you need to be more specific

1. I always imagined I would play in a band rather then by myself. But people are so unreliable. Its always the same shit "Ja, dude Ive got this thing on Saturday so...."

2. 19

3. Post grunge, grunge, rock. Somewhere around there.

4. Pretty sure. Im no fool Keira. I know its not going to be easy and I image I will often get to the point where I want to give up, but is anything in life not like that?

Sound engineering? Cool.

MIKA-the-better-one

stu wrote: 1. I always imagined I would play in a band rather then by myself. But people are so unreliable. Its always the same shit "Ja, dude Ive got this thing on Saturday so...."

Being in a band is way cooler, but yes you also have to deal with unreliable people... And if you really care about it you work around that (or with it).... everyone who starts a band deals with this.

Grunge/ Post Grunge: Sadly seems to be a very VERY popular genre in SA, with 5 or 6 bands in an evening at the right venue sounding like Seether, or 3 doors down. SO if you are really commited to that way of playing then you really have to be amazing at it just to be noticed out of the crowd.
Further in Europe and USA and Japan, grunge/ post grunge is considered is a bit out of date and not to popular. Then again if you are 19 you still have plently of time to grow and get to where you need ot be to "make it" in music.

epictring

When I started my first band about 2 years back. It was the same story, we went through about 3 vocalists, 1 guitarist and millions of drummers and bassists who simply stops pitching for band practice and so on. It really gets you down sometime..

If you keep pushing through, I promise you, you will get more "permanent" members who will stay a while. But yeah, the problem will always be there, but it's certainly worth it IMO.

Keira-WitherKay

Hi ya stu , ok you at a fabulous age . I would suggest you enrol yourself in music school at wits or some other uni offering a Bmus you young enough and what you learn is invaluable not to mention the music biz contacts you will make while studying. Take the 3 yrs to develop with the up and coming music students and when you done you will be way ahead of the game and only 22 or 23 with a solid music education and skills to match

Keira-WitherKay

Oh and i mean this very seriously if you learn to play solo piano, you will never be unemployed musically , pianists are used in every major hotel in the world . And there's always gig for a good solo pianist even here at sun city where i do gigs there's 1 x rock band / 1 x solo sax player / 2 x solo instrumental guitarists one classical guitarist and one jazz guitarist , thats me / and wait for it no fewer than 5 x pianists on permanent staff

Bob-Dubery

stu wrote:
1. I always imagined I would play in a band rather then by myself. But people are so unreliable. Its always the same shit "Ja, dude Ive got this thing on Saturday so...."

And old problem. But you're not that unreliable, and there are other folks out there who will show a similar level of dedication. You need to hook up with those people somehow. One of the ways to do this is to have a band and let the lineup change until you have a set of focussed, dedicated people.

And get gigs! Then there's something to work towards.

AlanRatcliffe

Keira's advice is solid - basically if you want to be sure to enter any part of the industry and make a living doing it, then it pays to train for it. Study the path you want to take - playing, engineering, production, etc. Unlike many industries, your path doesn't have to be a formal education, but it really helps if it is, and if it's not formal then be prepared to put in twice the time to learn as much as possible anyway.

Throw yourself into every project and job you can lay your hands on; take jobs you wouldn't normally consider; never stop learning; learn to recognise the people who have staying power, and don't waste time on those who don't; be professional at all times; and above all network, network, network.

The whole "making it in the music industry" (a.k.a. taking the "fame & fortune" route) is a bit of a crap shoot. While it's possible to do it this way, it's incredibly rare and success tends to be fleeting. Mostly there is a narrow window when you are the right age and your favoured style of music is popular (usually by the time you have learned to play in the specific style that influenced you to start, the popular music has already moved on). 99.9% of the folk who "make it" this way do not stay in the industry long, and most of those who do are usually the savvy ones who put every penny they earn from their brief success into setting themselves up properly for a long term career (recording studios, sound hire, promotion companies etc.). Anyway, the popular music industry these days is pretty much designed around everyone else making money off the artists and then disposing of them.

deebee

Mika, there is PLENTY of good music in SA. Just switch the radio on if you want to hear utter garbage a great deal of the time. We can compete with anyone. It just takes the belief. If the SABC is forced to play LOCAL it can only benefit the entire industry. With a vibrant industry the standards will automatically be uplifted and everyone benefits. The old record companies did set the stage for the present malaise, BUT, why can it not be changed with a multitude of voices. We have had excellent original bands since the late 60's. Hawk, Freedoms Children and later on Rabbit. They should have ''made it'' here, not have to travel overseas to get anywhere.

epictring

deebee wrote: Mika, there is PLENTY of good music in SA. Just switch the radio on if you want to hear utter garbage a great deal of the time. We can compete with anyone. It just takes the belief. If the SABC is forced to play LOCAL it can only benefit the entire industry. With a vibrant industry the standards will automatically be uplifted and everyone benefits. The old record companies did set the stage for the present malaise, BUT, why can it not be changed with a multitude of voices. We have had excellent original bands since the late 60's. Hawk, Freedoms Children and later on Rabbit. They should have ''made it'' here, not have to travel overseas to get anywhere.

Seether is also a good example.

Keira-WitherKay

Radio stations should never be forced into playing local . Cos that lowers the standard . So ask yourself the question that most artists are afraid to ask . Are you actually good enough ? Can your band fill a venue ? Do you have a significant following ? Cos if you good enough to compete with international acts and are packing out venues when you head the bill believe me you will be noticed and get your shot at deals and airplay but if you playing to 30 fans at a gig don't expect people to notice and it works the same overseas it's all about being able to put bums on seats . So don't blame the radio stations until you packing venues and still getting ignored . So it's about making your band marketable and building a following . Yes and that's the awfull truth .

deebee

No artist will ever pack anyone anywhere without support. Airtime=support. Playing local will never lower any standard. Who sets the bar for ''standards''. There is garbage by the ton on the airwaves, and most of it is from overseas. And, I don't play in a band, so, I will never put bums on any seats except for in my own house where i have occasionally played my own songs to friends and neighbours, who, even after lots of frosties have always said how much they have enjoyed the songs. So there you have it, I play to sold out lounges every once in a while.
As a pro musician, if you have ever recorded anything surely you would want it to get airtime, 'cos that can only propagate your craft and talent.
Every Saturday night there is a jazz programme on 567 and 702. I have never heard you, or Jimmy Dludu or MacMackenzie on this programme. I want to hear our local jazz musicians on the radio, not only overseas artists.

Squonk

A lot of the small stations do have quite a bit of Local Content.

Tuks FM
Mix 93.8 FM http://www.93-8fm.co.za/
and just the other day I was listening to UJ radio and they seem to promote quite a bit of local stuff.

I tend to keep away from 5FM, Highveld and 702, not much on there that tickles my fancy.