epictring
When I started my first band about 2 years back. It was the same story, we went through about 3 vocalists, 1 guitarist and millions of drummers and bassists who simply stops pitching for band practice and so on. It really gets you down sometime..
If you keep pushing through, I promise you, you will get more "permanent" members who will stay a while. But yeah, the problem will always be there, but it's certainly worth it IMO.
Keira-WitherKay
Hi ya stu , ok you at a fabulous age . I would suggest you enrol yourself in music school at wits or some other uni offering a Bmus you young enough and what you learn is invaluable not to mention the music biz contacts you will make while studying. Take the 3 yrs to develop with the up and coming music students and when you done you will be way ahead of the game and only 22 or 23 with a solid music education and skills to match
Keira-WitherKay
Oh and i mean this very seriously if you learn to play solo piano, you will never be unemployed musically , pianists are used in every major hotel in the world . And there's always gig for a good solo pianist even here at sun city where i do gigs there's 1 x rock band / 1 x solo sax player / 2 x solo instrumental guitarists one classical guitarist and one jazz guitarist , thats me / and wait for it no fewer than 5 x pianists on permanent staff
Bob-Dubery
stu wrote:
1. I always imagined I would play in a band rather then by myself. But people are so unreliable. Its always the same shit "Ja, dude Ive got this thing on Saturday so...."
And old problem. But you're not that unreliable, and there are other folks out there who will show a similar level of dedication. You need to hook up with those people somehow. One of the ways to do this is to have a band and let the lineup change until you have a set of focussed, dedicated people.
And get gigs! Then there's something to work towards.
AlanRatcliffe
Keira's advice is solid - basically if you want to be sure to enter any part of the industry and make a living doing it, then it pays to train for it. Study the path you want to take - playing, engineering, production, etc. Unlike many industries, your path doesn't have to be a formal education, but it really helps if it is, and if it's not formal then be prepared to put in twice the time to learn as much as possible anyway.
Throw yourself into every project and job you can lay your hands on; take jobs you wouldn't normally consider; never stop learning; learn to recognise the people who have staying power, and don't waste time on those who don't; be professional at all times; and above all network, network, network.
The whole "making it in the music industry" (a.k.a. taking the "fame & fortune" route) is a bit of a crap shoot. While it's possible to do it this way, it's incredibly rare and success tends to be fleeting. Mostly there is a narrow window when you are the right age and your favoured style of music is popular (usually by the time you have learned to play in the specific style that influenced you to start, the popular music has already moved on). 99.9% of the folk who "make it" this way do not stay in the industry long, and most of those who do are usually the savvy ones who put every penny they earn from their brief success into setting themselves up properly for a long term career (recording studios, sound hire, promotion companies etc.). Anyway, the popular music industry these days is pretty much designed around everyone else making money off the artists and then disposing of them.
deebee
Mika, there is PLENTY of good music in SA. Just switch the radio on if you want to hear utter garbage a great deal of the time. We can compete with anyone. It just takes the belief. If the SABC is forced to play LOCAL it can only benefit the entire industry. With a vibrant industry the standards will automatically be uplifted and everyone benefits. The old record companies did set the stage for the present malaise, BUT, why can it not be changed with a multitude of voices. We have had excellent original bands since the late 60's. Hawk, Freedoms Children and later on Rabbit. They should have ''made it'' here, not have to travel overseas to get anywhere.
epictring
deebee wrote:
Mika, there is PLENTY of good music in SA. Just switch the radio on if you want to hear utter garbage a great deal of the time. We can compete with anyone. It just takes the belief. If the SABC is forced to play LOCAL it can only benefit the entire industry. With a vibrant industry the standards will automatically be uplifted and everyone benefits. The old record companies did set the stage for the present malaise, BUT, why can it not be changed with a multitude of voices. We have had excellent original bands since the late 60's. Hawk, Freedoms Children and later on Rabbit. They should have ''made it'' here, not have to travel overseas to get anywhere.
Seether is also a good example.
Keira-WitherKay
Radio stations should never be forced into playing local . Cos that lowers the standard . So ask yourself the question that most artists are afraid to ask . Are you actually good enough ? Can your band fill a venue ? Do you have a significant following ? Cos if you good enough to compete with international acts and are packing out venues when you head the bill believe me you will be noticed and get your shot at deals and airplay but if you playing to 30 fans at a gig don't expect people to notice and it works the same overseas it's all about being able to put bums on seats . So don't blame the radio stations until you packing venues and still getting ignored . So it's about making your band marketable and building a following . Yes and that's the awfull truth .
deebee
No artist will ever pack anyone anywhere without support. Airtime=support. Playing local will never lower any standard. Who sets the bar for ''standards''. There is garbage by the ton on the airwaves, and most of it is from overseas. And, I don't play in a band, so, I will never put bums on any seats except for in my own house where i have occasionally played my own songs to friends and neighbours, who, even after lots of frosties have always said how much they have enjoyed the songs. So there you have it, I play to sold out lounges every once in a while.
As a pro musician, if you have ever recorded anything surely you would want it to get airtime, 'cos that can only propagate your craft and talent.
Every Saturday night there is a jazz programme on 567 and 702. I have never heard you, or Jimmy Dludu or MacMackenzie on this programme. I want to hear our local jazz musicians on the radio, not only overseas artists.
Squonk
A lot of the small stations do have quite a bit of Local Content.
Tuks FM
Mix 93.8 FM
http://www.93-8fm.co.za/
and just the other day I was listening to UJ radio and they seem to promote quite a bit of local stuff.
I tend to keep away from 5FM, Highveld and 702, not much on there that tickles my fancy.
IceCreamMan
look at all these lil kids taking care of the music biz.....
deebee
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Bob-Dubery
Keira WitherKay wrote:
Radio stations should never be forced into playing local . Cos that lowers the standard . So ask yourself the question that most artists are afraid to ask . Are you actually good enough ? Can your band fill a venue ? Do you have a significant following ? Cos if you good enough to compete with international acts and are packing out venues when you head the bill believe me you will be noticed and get your shot at deals and airplay but if you playing to 30 fans at a gig don't expect people to notice and it works the same overseas it's all about being able to put bums on seats . So don't blame the radio stations until you packing venues and still getting ignored . So it's about making your band marketable and building a following . Yes and that's the awfull truth .
There's a lot to debate here. Australia passed a law enforcing a certain percentage of local (to them) music. There were concerns of the sort that Keira raises, but within a couple of years there were Australian acts having international hits and pulling big crowds on the local live performance circuit. One of the acts held up as an example of the success of this policy was Men At Work.
This also stimulates the local music industry. It is cheaper for them to license product from overseas. They only have to reproduce the cover art and the CD. They don't have to spend any money on recording, on A&R etc.
If the radio stations have to have a stipulated percentage of local music they will push the record companies for it and a market will be stimulated. Record companies will have to sign local acts, develop them, record them. We actually see this happening already in two areas in which it is almost impossible to source product from overseas - Afrikaans music and township genres.
MIKA-the-better-one
deebee wrote:
Mika, there is PLENTY of good music in SA. Just switch the radio on if you want to hear utter garbage a great deal of the time. We can compete with anyone. It just takes the belief. If the SABC is forced to play LOCAL it can only benefit the entire industry. With a vibrant industry the standards will automatically be uplifted and everyone benefits. The old record companies did set the stage for the present malaise, BUT, why can it not be changed with a multitude of voices. We have had excellent original bands since the late 60's. Hawk, Freedoms Children and later on Rabbit. They should have ''made it'' here, not have to travel overseas to get anywhere.
I lived in SA for 8 years... I came across 1 or 2 great bands. But for the music I was around there was very little quality. In the way of Rock/ Alternative/ Indie/ Electro/ Stoner Rock/ Hard Rock..... There is very little happening in SA, maybe because the market is so small yet so saturated with bands all sounding the same.
I found a heavy reliance on overseas influences for bands in SA, and nowhere is that more evident than in a band like Seether! Who very simply jumped on the whole grunge train years after it hit. They sound like Nirvana on Radio Steriods, in a bad way.
I cant account for bands before my time in SA such as Rabbit, I can only assume that there was a better time for music. But for the time I saw it... it was not good.
Like I have said before, the township music is great!!! the african music is great, even the Afrikaanse music works for a very specific SA "white" market... maybe because they have a real soul behind them.
singemonkey
I agree with you MIKA about the general quality of SA music. But I'll say again, it's absurd and unfair to assume that local SA music should not be influenced extensively by overseas bands. That's what we listen too. No one complained when The Beatles and The Rolling Stones came along - influence almost exclusively by US R&B acts. No one complained when AC/DC came along influenced exclusively by British and US rock bands.
The quality of "black" pop (and gospel) music is higher because there is more competition. Not because of "soul." (which comes off border line racist. What's next? Black people have "natural rhythm?" ???) If people want that kind of music - as millions of South Africans do - they can't get it from overseas. So there's a big demand for that stuff here. And the result is a vibrant scene with many stand-out artists.
The mostly-white interest here in international pop music is (a) very small, and (b) edged out by heavily promoted international acts. The scene isn't big enough to really support niche music and it's not promoted to create such a scene - as Bob points out.
Bob-Dubery
singemonkey wrote:
I agree with you MIKA about the general quality of SA music. But I'll say again, it's absurd and unfair to assume that local SA music should not be influenced extensively by overseas bands. That's what we listen too. No one complained when The Beatles and The Rolling Stones came along - influence almost exclusively by US R&B acts. No one complained when AC/DC came along influenced exclusively by British and US rock bands
+1
Wizard
Nothing wrong with having healthy influence; and building on it.
(we all have to be influenced by something, ne?)
This is very different from direct, unoriginal imitation.
deebee
I know of the Australian law that was passed, and fully agree with how it boosted the Aussie music scene. Why shouldn't it happen here. If the industry boomed with new life it would encourage artists to write, record and perform, and to be recognized with airplay everyone would be forced to strive for continual improvement to be able to compete. I think that it is way past the time for such a law to be passed.
Norman86
From an outside perspective, depending on what you want to do in the music industry, its mostly who you know! Otherwise you wont get in!
Case in point... a few years ago, highveld stereo used to run the new dj search or whatever they called it.
the people eventually chosen and that made it to their finals?
Roxy Burger, Pabi Maloi, (both of KTV fame), and other people who were ALREADY in the industry.
This was publicised because they were dj's from smaller stations! NONE were joe soaps from the public!
So why waste the public's time to make them beleive it could be one of them??
As Kiera mentioned, the study route is great, you will get exposed and learn who you need to know! Otherwise, you just wont get in!
I know a few sound engineers, one is family, the other was a student of mine, and even they said that if they didnt study, they never would have gotten into the industry!
They might have gotten in on merit, obviously they had to pass their courses, but you get placed or helped to find a place once you have qualified! And its a lot easier with the right contacts!
long story short, its WHO you know, not what you know!
Keira-WitherKay
I been thinking and realised we have many acts that are local and get air play and tour internationly prob as much as australia since everyones using them as the bench mark . We have parlortones , prime circle , freshlyground , nude girls or arno solo , gold fish , mango groove , jessie clegg, and his father too mr clegg senior , hugh masekela , abdulha ibraheim, lira and almost forgot tree 63 just to scratch the surface that are on radio and touring worldwide , and as mika said the african music market is thriving and the afrikaans market has a list of artists making pretty good money and getting airplay and releasing cd's . Just think kurt darren, karen zoid, steve hofmeyer, patricia lewis , bok van blerk, karen hougaurd, robbie wessels, juanita du plessis,dozi and the list goes on . So where's the problem , if all these bands can do it in the system as it is . Whats stopping anyone . As i said in previous post and all these bands had followings and could fill rooms before they cracked it , and a new case in point is a singer who sang jazz for me in my jazz project when i got to jhb 5 years ago none other than the lovely and talented and now signed auriol hayes , she did jazz with me as her side project but was for years working on her original music and yes the pushed it and was signed 2 yrs ago and has a cd out , been in magazines and vids on tv and got to perform at the montreux jazz festival in switzerland last year , don't take my word for it see for yourself just google auriol hayes project . She is now based in ct . But she is hugely talented and writes good songs . So the system works if you can cut it by not just being a good muso but by offering a marketable product cos it's all about the money
