8-String!

Demigod · 2011-06-14T08:17:33+00:00

So I finally feel that i am ready to move on to 8-string. Would get the RG2228 but unfortunately that is about R12000 out of my price range. Any suggestions?

8-String!

G-Man

At what point do you think someone should start considering an 8 string? Do you consider it to be a different instrument all together from a standatrd 6 string guitar? (ie Are they just for metal? If so do standard chord shapes fall away, and is there then a whole new technique to playing one?) I'm trying to figure what the advantages are of the 2 extra string are?

LooneyAtTheGate

@Keira: I will post videos once I'm amazingly good! But since i don't see that any time soon i'll just have to post some vids anyway ?

@G-Man: I think get an 8-string if you're listening and playing a lot of 8-stringed guitar music. For me it was Animals as Leaders and Meshuggah. I was tired of downtuning/pitch-shifting my poor axes just to play with the record.
It is definitely an instrument that is not reserved for metal, i love to play jazz and classical on it too.

In my tuning you can make a normal E-chord shape and play all the strings without having to do any extra fretting, cos the lower 2 strings are B and E. You can barre this shape and play anywhere on the neck, but it is a plus to have large hands ☹ so i don't know about playing 8 strings with small hands.. It'll take perserverance and aching hands thats for sure.

If you have a looping device its fun to record some bass-line loops and play rhythm and leads over them.

Demigod

Indeed Looney, +2 for Animals as Leaders and Meshuggah. And for anything remotely djent, 8 string is the way to go.
Oh, and I know what the USE of the longer scale length is, i was just wondering about the frets being further apart. Whats the distance between the 1st and 2nd frets?

Malkav

Demigod wrote: Oh, and I know what the USE of the longer scale length is, i was just wondering about the frets being further apart. Whats the distance between the 1st and 2nd frets?

I'm too lazy to measure it but it's really not that much bigger if you have decent sized hands, mine are fairly big and I find I have no problems barring the entire neck in any positions. It makes playing things closer to the open positions a bit of a stretch but it widens out the higher frets just a tiny bit and make it easier for me to play notes cleanly up high. I've also found that because of the extra tension I have less issues alternate picking on it or doing really quick rhythms, I tune to standard and use a .010-.046 gauge set with a low .058 for the B and a .080 for the E so there's a lovely amount of snap in the string and it retains a nice big fundamental note.

G-Man wrote: At what point do you think someone should start considering an 8 string? Do you consider it to be a different instrument all together from a standatrd 6 string guitar? (ie Are they just for metal? If so do standard chord shapes fall away, and is there then a whole new technique to playing one?) I'm trying to figure what the advantages are of the 2 extra string are?

I think that metal players picked up on them really quickly because the seven string was so well received in that community that it made sense to give it a try ? Also Meshuggah are one of the fore runners in using 8 strings and ever since they got em Ibanez fanboys having been begging Ibanez to put the things into production and now that a massive company makes them it's given them more attention as they were generally only a "custom" order sort of thing. I think it can be amazingly useful for jazz or any kind of music where there's a single guitarist in a band and they want to fill out more spectrum - it just takes clever chord voicings to really make it sound HUGE. I personally find I gravitate mostly towards playing mine like a chapman stick, the extra range is really awesome for creating independent parts, but when you throw on some noisegates, a tubescreamer and some gain to get em djenting then they really do have a certain aura to them that lends itself incredibly well.

You'd be surprised at how easy the transition can be to go from 6 to 8, it's a little confusing at first but if you just keep at it and wrap your mind and hands around the extra range it can free you up so much compositionally and from a positional point of view. It's really all just about having the intent to play one, and if you get over the learning curve it's so worth it.

I'm now just going to post up examples of things that helped motivate my desire to get my hands on an 8. ?

This one's on an Agile 8 string.

This is on a Novak 8 string, which is made to be extremely different to the normal 8 strings being produced these days. It's more of a bass and guitar hybrid instrument.

Yes most of these are horrendously heavy, as previously stated though it's a great instrument not too many people outside of the metal community seem to be accepting it yet though it's potential definitely isn't limited to metal.

MikeM

Chad, that Tosin Abasi vid EMG808X just blew my mind. Pity the others weren't as awesome.. I typically find 8 string guit work way too overly technical to enjoy listening to ☹

Keira-WitherKay

yeah i loved the scotch and sofa clip....damn thats so my bag......... maybe there should be an 8 string for me on the horizon too....... i can relate to that

Demigod

Awesome another person that knows Djent. The whole Animals as leaders outfit are such technically proficient players, its something worth admiring.

Malkav

MikeM wrote: Chad, that Tosin Abasi vid EMG808X just blew my mind. Pity the others weren't as awesome.. I typically find 8 string guit work way too overly technical to enjoy listening to ☹

I like pretty much all of them ? I enjoy the polymetric stuff and I don't really have a limit on how heavy the music I listen to should get so it's normally a nice combination of aggression and technicallity for me ? Different strokes though good sir, simply different strokes ?

Keira WitherKay wrote: yeah i loved the scotch and sofa clip....damn thats so my bag......... maybe there should be an 8 string for me on the horizon too....... i can relate to that

That was pretty much the idea, it's the jazziest 8 string thing I could think of at the time ? It definitly is an idea that has merit and provided that some originality and thought is put into the music it can be as useful a tool for expression as a 6 string and sometimes maybe even a bit more useful in conveying an idea ?

In this video Tosin Abasi talks about why he chooses to play an 8 string and the various benefits he feels it has ?

I blame Ibanez for making the 8 string a more "metal" geared guitar by centering their advertising on that market.

G-Man

Thanks for clearing that up guys, gonna give this 8 string stuff a few more listens ?

LooneyAtTheGate

Yes i saw an REM-style band that used an 8-string, can't find the video.. There's even a hip-hop band:

So its not about metal, its about breaking out of the limitations of playing on a 6-string.

Keira-WitherKay

Chad Adam Browne wrote:
MikeM wrote:

Keira WitherKay wrote: yeah i loved the scotch and sofa clip....damn thats so my bag......... maybe there should be an 8 string for me on the horizon too....... i can relate to that
That was pretty much the idea, it's the jazziest 8 string thing I could think of at the time ? It definitly is an idea that has merit and provided that some originality and thought is put into the music it can be as useful a tool for expression as a 6 string and sometimes maybe even a bit more useful in conveying an idea ?

? hey Chad are you converting the masses to the world of 8 string ..........well it's working .......

loved what they did with it in scotch and sofa, but he was not playing a regular 8 string if i saw right (btw i went to you tube after i watched your clip and watched some more of their stuff) was it a 9 string cos the 3 bass string even by the tuners and bass pup under them and not the other strings ....looked like genuine bass guitar strings and then it seemed he had a 6 string under that or was that ony 5 strings or was it too late in the evening and i was not seeing straight , but definitely the 3 bass strings were dinkum bass strings and the tuners were bass tuners ............ now i like that and see the use of a guitar /bass hybrid but a standard 8 string is 8 guitar strings just a 6 string going to low B as 7th and is it then low G as 8th ? or what is the prefered tuning?

anyway i liked the bass/guitar hybrid ........... and definitely food for thought for future.. and my creative mind and my style of playing will find a use for an 8 if i get one ,

Malkav

Keira WitherKay wrote: ? hey Chad are you converting the masses to the world of 8 string ..........well it's working .......

I'm trying ?

Keira WitherKay wrote: loved what they did with it in scotch and sofa, but he was not playing a regular 8 string if i saw right (btw i went to you tube after i watched your clip and watched some more of their stuff) was it a 9 string cos the 3 bass string even by the tuners and bass pup under them and not the other strings ....looked like genuine bass guitar strings and then it seemed he had a 6 string under that or was that ony 5 strings or was it too late in the evening and i was not seeing straight , but definitely the 3 bass strings were dinkum bass strings and the tuners were bass tuners ............ now i like that and see the use of a guitar /bass hybrid but a standard 8 string is 8 guitar strings just a 6 string going to low B as 7th and is it then low G as 8th ? or what is the prefered tuning?

anyway i liked the bass/guitar hybrid ........... and definitely food for thought for future.. and my creative mind and my style of playing will find a use for an 8 if i get one ,

The bass guitar hybrid thing is made by a company called Novak, initially it was Charlie Hunters signature guitar. He's an amazing jazz player worth checking out, the guitar itself has 3 bass strings and 5 guitar strings ?

The do a solid: http://www.novaxguitars.com/sales/ch8.html and semi-hollow bodied model: http://www.novaxguitars.com/sales/ch8-semihollow.html

Also Charlie Hunter:

The man is a demonically good player, even on a six string guitar:

On my 8 string I tune E-B-E-A-D-G-B-E but in standard tuning the "correct", and I use this term very lightly, tuning is F#-B-E-A-D-G-B-E. In the tuning I seem to have settled on you don't have to learn where the notes are lying on the new string cause you've already got two other E strings so you should be able to tell where they are and as Tosin Abasi explains in the video, it makes big chords really easy ? I also just love knowing that I have the range of a 6 string guitar and a 4 string bass (the lowest E is the same low E you get on bass) ?

Keira-WitherKay

? beautiful guitars/bass hybrid that charlie hunter signiture ..... mmmm but at $3300 basic before extra's(like piezo ect) and shipping or $4400 for the semi hollow is quite out of my price range ......even though i love what i see.....

MikeM

Chad Adam Browne wrote:
I like pretty much all of them ? I enjoy the polymetric stuff and I don't really have a limit on how heavy the music I listen to should get so it's normally a nice combination of aggression and technicallity for me ? Different strokes though good sir, simply different strokes ?

Heaviness isn't an issue.. Although I appreciate the technicality, I feel often it comprimises musicality.. Which is why that one vid blew me away! Sounded really good as well as being technically fantastic. Not judging what you like or not ?

Demigod

MikeM, do you know The Faceless? Some bands manage to blend technicality with catchy riffs almost flawlessly. This is most probably not up most people's alley but hey...

MikeM

All this stuff is reminding me of Fall Of Troy.. ? I like em!

Demigod

Does anyone here have experience with a 30" scale guitar? I'm trying to decide between 28" and 30" scale.
Thanks

5mjacbyr

Hey everyone, sorry to chime in so late with the thread.
I have an Agile Pendulum 8, I was fortunate enough to be in the states at the end of last year,
so I ended up paying around R6k for mine. (http://www.rondomusic.com/pendulumpro27ebnat.html)

Mine looks exactly like this just with rosewood fingerboard not ebony.
In my opinion if you're going for an 8 string I would definitely recommend getting a multiscale model.
Ergonomically and all the other thing that Chad mentioned are just wonderful.
They are comfortable and effortless to play, my 8 make me want to get a fanned 7 as well.

As far as pickups go, because of the magnetic field of normal passive pickups
you can't throw a standard passive into a multi scale model, (Dimarzio D activator)
but actives you can. I bought a Lace alumitone and have been super happy with it in my 8.

If you do consider going for an Agile (Intrepid, Interceptor, Septor) be mindful of the routing
options for the pickups. The Agile's with passive pickups will be a direct replacement for the
Dimarzio, and the Active pickups will fit the SD Blackout/Emg 808/808x and any pickup in
the 5 String bass soap bar size. (all these dimensions are available somewhere)

The Q-tuner's have also had rave reviews in the neck position of 8's, I think Tosin's video is testament to that.
But in the Bridge position they are apparently overly harsh.

With regards to Rondomusic, Kurt, who runs the joint, is an excessively nice guy
and extremely helpful. Can't say enough good things about customer relations,
and from what I've read, no one has ever had anything bad to say about him.

When I was shopping around, the Intrepid's didn't appeal to me because of the
flat body, I prefer carved tops. It seems a lot of people have had trouble with the
Kahler trems on the Interceptors and when I was looking there were no neck-thru Septor models.

Keep your eyes on rondo's website the models change frequently and subscribe to
Kurt's mailing list if you haven't already, this way you'll get all the new models to you email door.

Demigod where are you staying? I'm i JHB and would welcome you to come check out my 8.
With regards to the scale length I would suggest the 28" unless you're planning on detuning heavily.
The problem with the 30" is that the higher string become lifeless when they're so thin,
so keep in mind the relationship between string pitch/tension/scale length.

Hope this helped,
Byron

Demigod

Wow your guitar looks awesome!
I'm still contemplating whether to get a Septor or Intrepid, since the rest is unfortunately out of my price range.
Your guitar looks awesome, although im not really into the skewed frets, just looks mainly, but of cource, i can be convinced ?. It's a shame Agile doesn't have a branch here cause shipping alone is gonna cost me $217!
I was wondering if actives would fin in the intrepid? http://www.rondomusic.com/intrpdual828blood.html or the septor http://www.rondomusic.com/septor828rnblueflame.html

Malkav

Demigod wrote: It's a shame Agile doesn't have a branch here cause shipping alone is gonna cost me $217!

They're pretty much a made to order brand, if they had distributors etc it would hike their prices up so much that they'd no longer be complete bargains they'd just be good guitars. As in worth the money but they wouldn't blow away their contenders in those price ranges, essentially if the price were higher you'd be in the bracket to compare it to the RG2228. In my book the RG wins ?

Demigod wrote: Does anyone here have experience with a 30" scale guitar? I'm trying to decide between 28" and 30" scale.

5mjacbyr wrote: With regards to the scale length I would suggest the 28" unless you're planning on detuning heavily.
The problem with the 30" is that the higher string become lifeless when they're so thin,
so keep in mind the relationship between string pitch/tension/scale length.

This!