stu
I dont know what you guys think but Im not buying my petrol from Shell anymore. I dont like the idea of them coming and fracking up the Karoo.
I know me not buying petrol from them anymore isnt going to make any difference but thats kind of like voting. If im not going to then I cant expect anymore else to.
The thing is Im try to encourage people to do the same as me and rather run out of petrol and have to push your car to the next garage rather then buy from Shell.
I think we as South Africans need to stand together on this. I dont know what kind of impact it will make, if any, but its worth a try I think.
Also I cant support a company that want to ruin parts of our country.
Who is with me?
Bob-Dubery
What's so bad about fracking? I haven't read any rigorous report by anybody who has geotechnical credentials that proves that there are problems. I have a couple of geologists amongst my drinking buddies and they say that all the "studies" they've been presented with that suggest that fracking is dangerous or damaging are fundamentally flawed and usually written by people who don't know what they're talking about.
An example is a recent study that slammed karoo fracking on the basis of methane levels in the ground water. Trouble is it had no before and after figures (which would have shown wether or not the levels had risen with fracking activity or even since fracking started) and didn't have any explanation at all as to the source of the methane.
So count me out.
Jack-Flash-Jr
Not to rain on the parade either, but we then also can't support BP, Engen, Total etc. because of their infractions (old, current and pending + local and international)...
Shell's "infracktion" is the least of why we should be boycotting them...
If the fracking is proven ill-advised maybe a widespread local boycott could be worth pushing for, not that they'd notice. A better approach would be finding hard evidence and making it public, as well as pursuing regulatory and legal avenues.
Bob-Dubery
There's also a good chance that oil fracked by Shell is finding it's way into other brands within SA. Probably best to buy a bicycle.
flatfourfan
I'm actually for it. If it's done right and managed right it can seriously benefit all.
I'd like to see a South African company benefit from it though, not some overseas set up.
StephenG
i just spent 8 hours driving through the Karoo this weekend.... trust me, fracking can only improve the place !! :?
Warren
flatfourfan wrote
I'm actually for it. If it's done right and managed right it can seriously benefit all.
I'd like to see a South African company benefit from it though, not some overseas set up.
This.
I think that if companies are going to tear up the countryside (which, let's face it, is largely what SA was built on) then the people in that country should see big benefits, and not only wealthy foreign investors.
Averatu
stu wrote
I dont know what you guys think but Im not buying my petrol from Shell anymore. I dont like the idea of them coming and fracking up the Karoo.
I know me not buying petrol from them anymore isnt going to make any difference but thats kind of like voting. If im not going to then I cant expect anymore else to.
The thing is Im try to encourage people to do the same as me and rather run out of petrol and have to push your car to the next garage rather then buy from Shell.
I think we as South Africans need to stand together on this. I dont know what kind of impact it will make, if any, but its worth a try I think.
Also I cant support a company that want to ruin parts of our country.
Who is with me?
Sadly the mining industry have ruined so many wetlands round here in the name of progress, and the authorities turn a blind eye thanx to the neat kickbacks. Money talks I'm afraid, and guys who pull million dollar pay checks only look out for themselves, screw the consumer. The Karoo has been left alone till now, but sadly its bound to happen.
Bob-Dubery
Averatu wrote
stu wrote
I dont know what you guys think but Im not buying my petrol from Shell anymore. I dont like the idea of them coming and fracking up the Karoo.
I know me not buying petrol from them anymore isnt going to make any difference but thats kind of like voting. If im not going to then I cant expect anymore else to.
The thing is Im try to encourage people to do the same as me and rather run out of petrol and have to push your car to the next garage rather then buy from Shell.
I think we as South Africans need to stand together on this. I dont know what kind of impact it will make, if any, but its worth a try I think.
Also I cant support a company that want to ruin parts of our country.
Who is with me?
Sadly the mining industry have ruined so many wetlands round here in the name of progress, and the authorities turn a blind eye thanx to the neat kickbacks. Money talks I'm afraid, and guys who pull million dollar pay checks only look out for themselves, screw the consumer. The Karoo has been left alone till now, but sadly its bound to happen.
But it's not the whole industry, some of those wetlands are on lands owned by mining companies, and we don't say "thou shalt not mine" do we? We say "thou mayest mine, but if thou polluteth yea ye shall be smote mightily with a very big stick indeed and thou bottom line shall suffer sorely."
We can't wish away industry. We can put measures in place to encourage it to act responsibly.
Averatu
X-rated Bob wrote
Averatu wrote
stu wrote
I dont know what you guys think but Im not buying my petrol from Shell anymore. I dont like the idea of them coming and fracking up the Karoo.
I know me not buying petrol from them anymore isnt going to make any difference but thats kind of like voting. If im not going to then I cant expect anymore else to.
The thing is Im try to encourage people to do the same as me and rather run out of petrol and have to push your car to the next garage rather then buy from Shell.
I think we as South Africans need to stand together on this. I dont know what kind of impact it will make, if any, but its worth a try I think.
Also I cant support a company that want to ruin parts of our country.
Who is with me?
Sadly the mining industry have ruined so many wetlands round here in the name of progress, and the authorities turn a blind eye thanx to the neat kickbacks. Money talks I'm afraid, and guys who pull million dollar pay checks only look out for themselves, screw the consumer. The Karoo has been left alone till now, but sadly its bound to happen.
But it's not the whole industry, some of those wetlands are on lands owned by mining companies, and we don't say "thou shalt not mine" do we? We say "thou mayest mine, but if thou polluteth yea ye shall be smote mightily with a very big stick indeed and thou bottom line shall suffer sorely."
We can't wish away industry. We can put measures in place to encourage it to act responsibly.
I agree, but the ethics in our great nation is not up to scratch.
flatfourfan
Averatu wrote
I agree, but the ethics in our great nation is not up to scratch.
BING------------------------------------------------------------O
Jack-Flash-Jr
StephenG wrote
i just spent 8 hours driving through the Karoo this weekend.... trust me, fracking can only improve the place !! :?
Irreverence is beautiful ?
DonovanB
Averatu wrote
I agree, but the ethics in our great nation is not up to scratch.
not just SA....
I've worked for some big oil companies. They sent us on "environmental awareness" courses which "taught" us that it's ok to pollute, as long as you do it within the legal limits. Which change a lot.
Fracking the Karoo will only mean more fuel for us to burn. I don't support it for that reason. Quite frankly I'd much rather them try find an alternate source instead of digging deeper to try find the same old junk.
StephenG
Jack Flash Jr wrote
StephenG wrote
i just spent 8 hours driving through the Karoo this weekend.... trust me, fracking can only improve the place !! :?
Irreverence is beautiful ?
so is Sheila in accounts - wouldn't mind fracking her either.
Tonedef
I'd love for the oil to run out. Honestly. Society as we know it will take a huge knock and the chaos will be immense for years, but the ultimate long run result can only be positive.
From an environmental perspective, dirty coal is probably a worse culprit, and we are a loooong way away from exhausting it.
Averatu
Donovan Banks wrote
Averatu wrote
I agree, but the ethics in our great nation is not up to scratch.
not just SA....
I've worked for some big oil companies. They sent us on "environmental awareness" courses which "taught" us that it's ok to pollute, as long as you do it within the legal limits. Which change a lot.
Fracking the Karoo will only mean more fuel for us to burn. I don't support it for that reason. Quite frankly I'd much rather them try find an alternate source instead of digging deeper to try find the same old junk.
That would be first prize.
Bob-Dubery
There are many things that each of us can do to reduce emissions. If one of us does these things then the impact is very small, but if many of us each do these same things then the collective impact will be non-trivial.
To me the problem too often is that we think somebody else (usually some big, vague entity like "Government" or "big business") should be doing something about whatever problem it is. We don't do what we can do.
Plant a tree. Use energy saving lights (good for your back pocket as well). Solar water heating (good for your back pocket in the long run). Smaller guitar amplifiers with lower consumption ?. Drive a diesel vehicle (on TopGear they calculated that the average diesel family saloon produces LESS emissions than a Prius). Don't buy a new car as often (a lot of the carbon footprint of a car is due to manufacturing). Change the way that you drive - windgats burn more fuel and cause more emissions. Don't turn on all the lights at night - just the ones you're going to use (again this is kind to your backpocket). Don't boil water you're not going to use straight away. All little things, but if enough people do them then the multiplier kicks in and the little becomes a lot.
Most Pikitup sites in Jo'burg will take your paper, tins, glass and (sometimes) used motor oil for recycling.
Tonedef
I'm not convinced about energy saving bulbs, hey. They do save energy while running, but their manufacturing takes over 25x more juice, at least, than incandescents. It's actually a quite complicated bit of kit. Open one up if you're curious.
There has only been one major study done on this, by the EU Energy commission, and the comparison was inconclusive, to say the least. It did also not factor in the fact that China bears the bulk of the refining, manufacturing and transport energy budget for the majority of the ES bulbs sold in europe, nor did it factor in the sky-high relative energy cost of recycling the rare earths and noble gasses used in their manufacture. It's not clear at all whether they last long enough to recoup the end-to-end energy investment.
It's one thing to save juice on a localized energy budget like on a household or supplier level (Eskom mos had an initiative where they gave them away gratis), but an entirely different kettle of fish when the manufacturing spend is offloaded on a third world country, with no clear picture whether there is a nett energy saving. It's no small wonder china's energy consumption has skyrocketed in the last two decades, and if you consider that China's major energy source is Dirty Coal, it certainly adds up to a platterful of food for thought....
BMU
That is awesome. More industry, jobs and foreign direct investment for SA = a very good thing. (I'm not jibing anyone here, that's how I feel. This makes me really happy.)
Tonedef
I tend to agree. I work for a company that has a non-profit local government/small community development offshoot. We have a large footprint primarily because we serve the country's mining industry.
Poverty and lack of development in isolated communities are a direct result of lack of investment. This move could do wonders for many communities, and one tends to wonder what the energy companies would make of the massive areas of sun-baked karoo... It's a pity though that the direct, immediate return on investment is preferable now as opposed to a massively more expensive but ultimately more economical solar project. Time will tell, I guess. Solar power isnt labour intensive, and that probably plays a role in the politics of the whole thing.
