Super good idea paul! I am in on that! Btw if you can check out albert frost! Loop genius!

Only thing I see is that entries can get long and might complicate the voting! But that can be part of the challenge to keep the listener hooked throughout you composition!

Jacquesg4j wrote: Only thing I see is that entries can get long and might complicate the voting! But that can be part of the challenge to keep the listener hooked throughout you composition!

Length may be an issue. One of the reasons there's a time limit on entries at the moment is to keep file sizes down.

For me there's no proposition here. You can create loops with software like Audacity (and I have!). Loopers are only interesting really when used live or seen to be used live. Even then it's a novelty that wears thin if it's overused.

When KT Tunstall performed Black Horse and the Cherry Tree on TV it was striking because you saw the looper in action and the building up of layers happening in real time whilst the artist performed. But she did nothing with the looper that couldn't have very easily been done in even a very modestly equipped studio. Once you're just dealing in recordings you lose that novelty aspect and you also don't need a looper to get the same effect.

My last competition entry I ran into a latency problem with Audacity and the sound card on my PC. So I used my looper as a recording device - which is what it is at it's core.

And how would anybody know if I looped it on the fly or if I sat and stitched a whole lot of takes together over a period of days and then made a loop of that? I'm not just talking about misrepresentation, I'm asking how you would know the difference and if it WOULD make a difference?

I would say leave it down to honesty!

Jacquesg4j wrote: I would say leave it down to honesty!

That's not what I was really getting at. The point is that looping live has some kind of value and attraction if it's done obviously. But in a recording situation it makes no difference and adds no value - except maybe at a billing level because you cut down on personnel and time costs.

It has to be in a live setting


http://www.guitarforum.co.za/guitar-players/freaker-by-the-speaker/

Hmm.. I hear what you're saying Bob.. I guess in my mind it was like that video that someone posted using the roland amp's looper. That could be done in a studio, for sure, but in reality, it wouldn't be because why would you clap or use your guitar's body unless you were on the fly, one take, record, sing, solo, etc.

But, maybe you're right.. ?

I dont know. It may be a good idea. Maybe I'm not qualified to offer an opinion here becasue I havent even entered anything in the normal compos yet. I have this micro br but havent got the hang of it yet. I work too hard at my job you see. But Paul E's last statement is what it's all about really init? Let's see what the ouens are getting up to. I've been reading the posts of guys getting loopers and so on and wondering but what are you okes doing with it? I've got two things I can do a bit of a loop with viz a micro br and a dd-7. Not loop stations but I tell you they do a little loop if that's what you call it. My sights are set on an Akai Headrush becasue where I've been reading the people seem to think it's good. Anyway, that's just btw.

So, no live situation and you dont get to see the circus trick but I can see some sort of value or interest in this. I'll try and find the time to give it a crack if it comes on.

My opinion on the matter is that there definately could be merrit in a challenge such as this. But judging criterea would have to be outlined very specifically.

In the practice it might seem that a looping device only has merit in a live situation, but this is questionable;

Usage of a looper must have certain compositional implications, ie. whatever one does over the recorded loop must adhere to certain musical rules of harmony, etc. There are creative possibillities ranging from merely creating a chordal (often very static) texture to where I can imagine someone coming up with a highly contrapuntal composition a la Bach. It would be possible for a single person to play the whole Pachelbel Canon using a looper, so if this piece of equipment can inspire you to such lofty creativity, I say kudos to you and your gear.
More than for stage OR studio application, I suppose the looper's real value lies in its use in the private practise room. This would then be a compositional challenge...

took the words out of my mouth.

X-rated Bob wrote: That's not what I was really getting at. The point is that looping live has some kind of value and attraction if it's done obviously. But in a recording situation it makes no difference and adds no value - except maybe at a billing level because you cut down on personnel and time costs.

Wow - that's a strong opinion. ?
I effectively "record" some interesting back tracks which I use for practicing.
So ... nothing wrong with having a little comparison to see what people are shaking together in their own time for their own practice.
Seems a bit harsh to shoot it down so brutally.

Perhaps that needed to be prefaced with "IMHO"
?

Wizard wrote:

X-rated Bob wrote: That's not what I was really getting at. The point is that looping live has some kind of value and attraction if it's done obviously. But in a recording situation it makes no difference and adds no value - except maybe at a billing level because you cut down on personnel and time costs.

Wow - that's a strong opinion. ?
I effectively "record" some interesting back tracks which I use for practicing.
So ... nothing wrong with having a little comparison to see what people are shaking together in their own time for their own practice.
Seems a bit harsh to shoot it down so brutally.

Perhaps that needed to be prefaced with "IMHO"
?

I think you're missing what I thought was my over-arching point. Loopers are interesting in a live performance situation. Away from that they are no different than tape loops or loops created with software such as audacity. I grant they are useful practice aids, but so are backing tracks made with drum machines and synths.

it's only interesting live because you see the layers being built up. As I said, for a competition entry, or any other kind of recorded track, you have no way of knowing if it was looped by a person stomping on pedals with precise timing or stitched together using some other recording device or software. What's more it makes no difference to the listener, adds nothing to the experience of the performance.

I agree with Bob on this one. Nothing more to say... IMHO, he's said it all.

Now, if the entry was a video where you could see and hear the spontaneity of the loops being created 'live', then that would be a different matter.

I think I understand the role of loopers and backing tracks; in a live, recorded and practice environment; and how they work.

Paul E wrote: What'd ya'll say? It's slightly different to the normal challenges in that it's godda be recorded in 1 take with a looper.

I think Paul was wanting to see what people were specifically doing with loopers in 1 take.
If for no other reason to show other forumites what these machines are capable of.

I would certainly be interested to hear what other people get up to with their loopers.
And yes - I know it will come with the normal guitar forum deflation as you really what a big hill it is to climb!
?

As I said, for a competition entry, or any other kind of recorded track, you have no way of knowing if it was looped by a person stomping on pedals with precise timing or stitched together using some other recording device or software

There is always a trust factor involved in all of the competitions.
If we were scoundrels, we could always just get the gifted musician next door to create our entries!
?

Besides - as an idea it doesn't need to be a competition.
It could be a "demonstration" by people to show what they have done.
People could also indicate which they liked or not; so yes, that would encourage some sense of challenge.

Why not start a poll to see what interest it may generate?

PeteM wrote:
Now, if the entry was a video where you could see and hear the spontaneity of the loops being created 'live', then that would be a different matter.

yes damn right, i'm with PeteM here , why not make it a video entry...... maybe even apart from the ussual comp. ..........

actually on 2nd thoughts why does it need to be a competition, cos really not everything needs to be competitive ?...........

why not just start a thread under you tube video's of forum members using loopers ...... problem solved, and it'll be good to see how creative people can be...........with creating a loop on the fly .......

Keira WitherKay wrote: actually on 2nd thoughts why does it need to be a competition, cos really not everything needs to be competitive ?...........

why not just start a thread under you tube video's of forum members using loopers ...... problem solved, and it'll be good to see how creative people can be...........with creating a loop on the fly .......

Yeah, I agree Keira, I think you're right. No need for it to be a comp, may as well just put up video's of what we can do. ?

Just so everyone knows, Bob and I have a good friendship, I didn't take any offence to what he said. I think his point was very valid and it needed to be said.

If we want to do youtube video's and just post em up to show each other what we're doing, I think that'll be cool.

Ag you're just saying that becasue you scared he locks this thread.

just as an aside.. i couldn't buy a looper for love or money this weekend...

went into Bothners to ask about a looper.. guy asked me why everyone seems to be buying loopers these days. said they cant keep them on the shelf long enough to put a price tag on them.


i also wanted a Boss BD-2 , which they also did not have in stock.. he went off to get a pen and paper to write my details down to order the pedals, and promptly started helping another customer without coming back to me... guess thats my fault for only wanting to buy cheap pedals. :?