Who sports unconventional ways of playing?

Svengali

Hey all. I just watched a video of me playing guitar couple of years back. The lapse of time has allowed me to be a little more critical of my playing. What jumps out at me is my violin vibrato ? (I've been playing for 20+ years, a lot longer than I'm playing the guitar) and try as I might, I can't shake it.

In fact, my way of doing seems to hinder me from being able to excecute vibrato like most guitarist (bar the classicaly trained) does it through bending of the string rather than rapidly exerting more presure. BTW, on violin your finger "moves" so to speak up and down (ever so slightly becuase of the angle against the string) which is not the way the same action would affect the pitch on the guitar (because of fixed frets), but the results are the same.

To me it just looked wrong!!! Nothing serious though, but made me wonder, who here may display similarly quirky ways of playing?

Gordon Mote, a brilliant session pianist in the US and blind since birth crosses his fingers backwards at the piano. That is he would cross a second over a third finger or the other way around whereas pianists normally only cross a thumb under another finger. Looks totally strange but his playing doesn't suffer a bit, he's SO good.

If someone can maybe teach me to vibrato properly in five steps (thats how I learned on the violin).... ?

vic

Let me start off by saying... if the unconventional produces the same result I guess it's OK... ?...but I see where you're coming from.
In piano the student is made to conform to the teacher ...usually these are well-trained and technically excellent players....my Mom was one... and because she was taught to execute scales in a certain way (eg. the fingering you mention) she would also expect her students to play "correct". The same with some guitar teachers...
However as one progresses and given the freedom of "expression", you tend to develop your own methods and styles...nothing wrong with that.
Talking about vibrato...you're right...the violinist would achieve a high frequency vibrato by using the convential method you mentioned. The same applies to the guitar...I just tested it..... Bending a guitar string on the other hand produces a slightly lower frequency vibrato.

In guitar you get so many diverse playing styles...from the conventional, to the more unconventional, to the almost "ridiculous" ? and all of these add charm to what we call playing.

I for one use red sharkfin plectrums ?.... for acoustic strumming to electric rock....that would be seen as unconventional in some circles... ?

singemonkey

I've heard it said that classical guitar vibrato is a kind of a fluke. Using the same technique as on a fretless instrument, you do get vibrato, but only because the movement of your finger on the string bends the string slightly. And perhaps guitarists learned to emphasise that unconsciously.

It's like I used to hear people speaking for or against playing with your thumb over or behind the neck. It depends what style you're playing predominantly. I don't try to play classical with my thumb over the neck, and I don't fight to bend strings playing blues with my thumb behind the neck. Maybe I'm funny this way, but I believe that certain techniques have evolved to be more effective for playing certain styles and I tend to shift as I play different things. My picking technique for slide - such as it is - is completely different to other stuff I play as I'm now damping strings with the other fingers of my picking hand.

One thing I'd love to be able to do is play blues vibrato in Clapton's unconventional style (his hand basically doesn't even touch the neck). But as much as I've tried I can't make a start on it. So I'm contenting myself with improving my B.B. King style "fulcrum-vibrato" (just made that up). So far I've got from poor to almost mediocre ?

Oh. I noticed that Eddie Van Halen holds his pick between thumb and middle finger. No slouch with it either.

Bob-Dubery

Some of my favourite players have techniques that are not textbook, though I suspect in most cases they are grounded in orthodoxy and have extended that to allow them to do things about which the textbook is silent. Any guitarist who plays with a hybrid right-hand technique is really going either past or beyond the textbook.

One of my favourite players on any instrument is double bass player Danny Thompson who does things on a double bass that would raise a purist's eyebrows, but I suspect that underneath it all (and although he's largely self taught, having graduated from playing tea chest bass in a skiffle band) there is a fundamentally sound technique and certainly a good grasp of musical theory.

IceCreamMan

its music ...its an expressive medium... if we all played the "correct" way this would be called the Stepford guitar forum.

if it sounds good even a washboard is a musical instrument

AlanRatcliffe

I'm completely self taught, so have a lot of "habits":

- I use a lot of flamenco technique on electric guitar.
- I almost always anchor my right hand - pinkie, heel or thumb against bridge, pickups or side of neck.
- I also learned to bend strings without using more than one finger to back up the bend, but can still bend 1-1/2 tones with one finger (on .011s).
- I have a very wide vibrato and never sustain the note before adding vibrato - I add it immediately.
- I often use a lot of slides and classical vibrato. Both from playing fretless guitar for a couple of years.
- I fret with the pad of my LH pinkie more than I do the tip - my one really bad habit.

vic

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I'm completely self tought, so have a lot of "habits":

- I use a lot of flamenco technique on electric guitar.
- I almost always anchor my right hand - pinkie, heel or thumb against bridge, pickups or side of neck.
- I also learned to bend strings without using more than one finger to back up the bend, but can still bend 1-1/2 tones with one finger (on .011s).
- I have a very wide vibrato and never sustain the note before adding vibrato - I add it immediately.
- I often use a lot of slides and classical vibrato. Both from playing fretless guitar for a couple of years.
- I fret with the pad of my LH pinkie more than I do the tip - my one really bad habit.

Really Alan with all those bad habits I'm surprised you can actually get a note out of the ol' guit ? Just kidding of course.....

Now here's my unconventional 'habit'....each and every illustration I've seen ito posture when playing seated, has the player with the guitar on the right thigh (RH playing)...I prefer it on my left thigh...for me it just feels too uncomfortable the other way around ?

Bob-Dubery

vic wrote:
Now here's my unconventional 'habit'....each and every illustration I've seen ito posture when playing seated, has the player with the guitar on the right thigh (RH playing)...I prefer it on my left thigh...for me it just feels too uncomfortable the other way around ?

Actually you're falling in with the convention or text book - at least the classical text book. Right handed classical players will support the guitar on their left thigh

AlanRatcliffe

Oh, yeah - I also fret with my thumb and often extend/add notes to chords with my right hand. Both pretty common these days since Hendrix and EVH.

Strangely enough, without anyone to stop me and tell me my habits were bad, they didn't really get in my way and became "features" of my playing, eventually making me a fairly unique player. I tended to concentrate on the advantages of these things and not worry about the disadvantages.

vic

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Oh, yeah - I also fret with my thumb and often extend/add notes to chords with my right hand. Both pretty common these days since Hendrix and EVH.

Strangely enough, without anyone to stop me and tell me my habits were bad, they didn't really get in my way and became "features" of my playing, eventually making me a fairly unique player. I tended to concentrate on the advantages of these things and not worry about the disadvantages.

ja...but have you tried picking with your teeth ala Hendrix ? ?

http://www.guitarhype.com/blog/?paged=3

vic

X-rated Bob wrote:
vic wrote:
Now here's my unconventional 'habit'....each and every illustration I've seen ito posture when playing seated, has the player with the guitar on the right thigh (RH playing)...I prefer it on my left thigh...for me it just feels too uncomfortable the other way around ?
Actually you're falling in with the convention or text book - at least the classical text book. Right handed classical players will support the guitar on their left thigh

That's correct....I did a quick google image search for classical players.

Also found a lot of other pics supporting the "right thigh posture"

http://www.google.co.za/search?um=1&hl=en&rlz=1W1SKPT_en&biw=1419&bih=664&site=search&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=guitar+lessons+playing+seated&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

FruitarGeek

I'm actually trying to find new and different techniques. It makes for some interesting playing.

Currently, what Im attempting to do, at great difficulty, is to play guitar using a plectrum and use the remaining 3 fingers for pickings, or alternativly, to learn how to swing the plectrum to my pinky side and use fingers for picking and then swing back.

Svengali

FruitarGeek wrote: Currently, what Im attempting to do, at great difficulty, is to play guitar using a plectrum and use the remaining 3 fingers for pickings, or alternativly, to learn how to swing the plectrum to my pinky side and use fingers for picking and then swing back.

This is a mindcough (keeping it clean).

I fail to see what you could achieve. Sure, if you're predominantly a pick user and then want to change for part of a song to a finger picking style the first option makes sense...

Would'nt you otherwise just limit yourself by having four points of contact with the strings instead of five? Or do you do it for tonal variation? ???

Keira-WitherKay

Svengali wrote:
FruitarGeek wrote: Currently, what Im attempting to do, at great difficulty, is to play guitar using a plectrum and use the remaining 3 fingers for pickings, or alternativly, to learn how to swing the plectrum to my pinky side and use fingers for picking and then swing back.
This is a mindcough (keeping it clean).

I fail to see what you could achieve. Sure, if you're predominantly a pick user and then want to change for part of a song to a finger picking style the first option makes sense...

Would'nt you otherwise just limit yourself by having four points of contact with the strings instead of five? Or do you do it for tonal variation? ???

this hybrid pick/fingerstyle technique is very common amonst many players....... and used effectively

here a video of jim campilongo he uses this style

and in answer to the question re tone. pure fingerstyle has a different tone to using a pick and fingers...... not saying any is better or preferred just different so depends on your tonal needs......

flatfourfan

I used to hold my pick with my thumb and 2nd finger with my 1st finger up in the air like you're drinking tea. Only when I started learning new tracks and honestly stuff that I've never been able to play before, did it become an issue. It was more comfortable, but now that I've standardized some things, it's becoming way easier to make some serious progress.

Eddie Van Helen holds his picks like this, but it would be unfair to compare myself to him............lol.

Mannemarak

I also play with my pick between my thumb and middle finger with index finger for extra support...but only recently found I cannot pick a nice rhythm this way. Also I have to keep my hand anchored all the time on the bridge or so otherwise it tires quickly.

Time to unlearn my way and re-learn the thumb-index finger way...will have to experiment

flatfourfan

Mannemarak wrote: I also play with my pick between my thumb and middle finger with index finger for extra support...but only recently found I cannot pick a nice rhythm this way. Also I have to keep my hand anchored all the time on the bridge or so otherwise it tires quickly.

Time to unlearn my way and re-learn the thumb-index finger way...will have to experiment

that was exactly my issue. Add that with the fact that I ONLY used to down pick and you have a recipe for very tired hands and finger very quickly.

Mannemarak

flatfourfan wrote:
that was exactly my issue. Add that with the fact that I ONLY used to down pick and you have a recipe for very tired hands and finger very quickly.

I also downpick 98% percent and here and there an up-pick when my hand is conveniantly below the string I want to pick

flatfourfan

Mannemarak wrote:
flatfourfan wrote:
that was exactly my issue. Add that with the fact that I ONLY used to down pick and you have a recipe for very tired hands and finger very quickly.

I also downpick 98% percent and here and there an up-pick when my hand is conveniantly below the string I want to pick

Get rid of that habit and force yourself. I'm miffed that I didn't make any effort when I got back into playing. I'm starting to do it now though, it makes things a WHOLE lot easier........less effort, same if not better results. I can play for hours now without getting tired.

Mannemarak

Do you then still anchor your hand by placing your palm on the bridge or do you support your hand with the other 3 fingers below the strings (like a pool shoot move ? Heck, can't phrase it otherwise) ?