whats with fender amp pricing in this country? are we being ripped off

Keira-WitherKay · 2011-04-15T08:29:44+00:00

sure you all read my post looking for a Fender princeton reverb reissue amp .here in sa the retail is 20 K and after discount it seems 13K is about the be...

whats with fender amp pricing in this country? are we being ripped off

ezietsman

You know for that money you can get a Blackstar Artisan 15. Yeah, no reverb, no trem, no master volume but OMG it sounds good.

bottledtone

As an Amp builder, I have always had an issue with Fender due to the guys making money on amps that were designed in the 60's by good old Leo.
The circuit, the dimensions, faceplate styling... Everything!
No R+D, they are just pulling off blueprints from the shelf.
Its just and issue I have I guess.

Bob-Dubery

bottledtone wrote: As an Amp builder, I have always had an issue with Fender due to the guys making money on amps that were designed in the 60's by good old Leo.
The circuit, the dimensions, faceplate styling... Everything!
No R+D, they are just pulling off blueprints from the shelf.
Its just and issue I have I guess.

Don't you think that applies a lot wider than Fender amps? How about a Martin D-28? Gibson Les Pauls... OK there's some variants but it's not rocket science is it?

Successful products are a trap in that they're hard to change. I know people who think it's really about time Martin came to the party and used wood bindings on their guitars. Now Martin do claim some advantages to the plastic bindings they use on the 18 and 28 models (IE it takes knocks better) but the reality is that the moment they change those bindings a lot of potential buyers will say "that's not a D-28".

Besides, if you have a classic, and people want that classic with it's characteristic sound then what actually is wrong with continuing to build them? Wouldn't you be silly to mess with a winning formula?

I'm not defending Fender here BTW, more a general principle. I don't think Fender are the only people continuing to leverage classic, largely unchanged designs and I don't see the real problem with leveraging such a design.

bottledtone

X-rated: You are completely right. Yes, it would be stupid to stuff around with successful designs! Fender clean is the benchmark for most amps.
I love the BF style, but my issue is that they are selling "vintage voodoo mojo" and not the amp itself. The price should not be that high! These amps are still machine made, pcb amps!
Excpetion to their handwired range, which get better components and builders "love" that go into it.
But hey, they rule the market of the world. We want their stuff, and the world is buying it.

Keira-WitherKay

ezietsman wrote: You know for that money you can get a Blackstar Artisan 15. Yeah, no reverb, no trem, no master volume but OMG it sounds good.

the thing is people buy fender black face tube amps for the reason that fender black face clean tone is what we want .and this clean tone has been the most sought after tone by muso's who play clean and slightly edgy and in fact many other amp builders try to recreate that fender tone on their clean channels...... so i'm not saying this is the best amp or even that it's versatile (cos it's pretty much a one tone amp) but if you want that fender clean sound which , i and many others do, there is no way to achieve it other than buying a fender black face amp......

so i wouldn't care if i could get a blackstar 100W stack for the price of a single 10" 15W princetron i couldn't use the sound it has.......

fender have incredibly created intruments and amps that have a unique identifiable tone .... not to mention legendary reverb tones and tube driven tremelo's

strats /tele's /their black face tube amps all have tones that are so distinctive that most people can pick out the tone in a blind test ...

and that sound does NOT suit everyones sound and style and i'm sure many muso's would hate that tone

but for some of us( me included) plugging a fender guitar into a fender amp is nothing short of magic (orgasmic explains it better )

Ray

If someone got hold of the schematic would he/she be able to put together the same thing for less $?

Keira-WitherKay

Ray wrote: If someone got hold of the schematic would he/she be able to put together the same thing for less $?

actualy i am looking into that ...... cos my rekconing is that if the amp really only cost 6K ( in states) and then thats still with the middle man and supplier adding on their cut the actual amp must cost 4K or less in components ... to build then just pay someone to build it ..... but then most boutique builders tend to want to hike the price for the labur cos it's now hand built so might end up at the same point . ?

but i'm looking into it

evolucian

I am in total agreement with the sheer orgasmicness of fender on fender... nothing beats it... and i havent swayed my vote yet in my 14 years of that sound...

pbrizzolari

Hi Kiera,

I generally have a problem with the prices we get charged for everything from cd's to books to bikes and especially musical equipment so I tend to order online. I just had a look at sweetwater.com who I used to order my Boss Micro BR and I got the following quote which includes shipping the amp to me in Pretoria. I really can vouch for the service of these guys, the only complication being that you will need to verify your bank account details via fax or email if I remember correctly. PM me if you'd like more details. Please note the rand values are calculated at the current rate by a plugin on my machine so the rate they use might vary by a a few cents.

I really do believe that the supply chain in South Africa needs to get a good shakeup and so I refuse to buy big ticket items here. I just ordered a set of Slash signature seymour duncan pickups from tonefactor at half the price of what they are here as well and with shipping. There is just no contest.

Fender '65 Princeton Reverb
Single-channel 15-watt, 1 x 10 Tube Guitar Combo Amp with Reverb and Vibrato
ItemID: PrinceRev65 1 R5,987.71 ()
Subtotal: R5,987.71 ()
Tax: R0 ()
Shipping and Handling: R2,376.28 ()
Total: R8,363.99 ()

Edit: forgot to add, you will still need to add VAT and I'm not sure what the import duties are on amps. If they are at 30% then your total is 12 395.44

Keira-WitherKay

pbrizzolari wrote: Hi Kiera,

I generally have a problem with the prices we get charged for everything from cd's to books to bikes and especially musical equipment so I tend to order online. I just had a look at sweetwater.com who I used to order my Boss Micro BR and I got the following quote which includes shipping the amp to me in Pretoria. I really can vouch for the service of these guys, the only complication being that you will need to verify your bank account details via fax or email if I remember correctly. PM me if you'd like more details. Please note the rand values are calculated at the current rate by a plugin on my machine so the rate they use might vary by a a few cents.

I really do believe that the supply chain in South Africa needs to get a good shakeup and so I refuse to buy big ticket items here. I just ordered a set of Slash signature seymour duncan pickups from tonefactor at half the price of what they are here as well and with shipping. There is just no contest.

Fender '65 Princeton Reverb
Single-channel 15-watt, 1 x 10 Tube Guitar Combo Amp with Reverb and Vibrato
ItemID: PrinceRev65 1 R5,987.71 ()
Subtotal: R5,987.71 ()
Tax: R0 ()
Shipping and Handling: R2,376.28 ()
Total: R8,363.99 ()

Edit: forgot to add, you will still need to add VAT and I'm not sure what the import duties are on amps. If they are at 30% then your total is 12 395.44

thanks for the effort appreciated and i believe yes i would pay vat but someone mentioned theres no import tax on amps but thats heresay right now...

pbrizzolari

Hi Kiera,

as far as I know there is no duty, I just wanted to illustrate that even at the worst case scenario you can beat the prices we get quoted here. And that is even taking into account the fact that you are paying for air shipping over sea.

It's no effort for me at all, like I said; I do this all the time.

kapepper

Absolutley true, you guys are being ripped of...

you can buy a decent fender deluxe reverb amp in europe for 6500 rand (i know i did), new they retail at 11.000 Rsa

I also was in one of the SA guitarshops and saw that nice princeton amp, i was think, well that will be around 8000-9000 rsa, taking in consideration the SA inflation... 17.000 RSA they told me....

Mmmm might think of starting to import fender amps from europe ?

Chris-Mason

Yes we are being ripped off. I will not buy any more Fender products based on their pricing.This applies to other brands as well. Perhaps its time the us the consumer start putting pressure on suppliers who take advantage of us the consumer. The retailers are not to blame, its the suppliers who dictate pricing. I now look for secondhand gear as I am no longer prepared to pay such ridiculous prices. The exception on my comment above is Tokai where you can get a superior product at half the price of a Fender.
Saddle and Nut

Bob-Dubery

Saddle and Nut wrote: Yes we are being ripped off. I will not buy any more Fender products based on their pricing.This applies to other brands as well. Perhaps its time the us the consumer start putting pressure on suppliers who take advantage of us the consumer. The retailers are not to blame, its the suppliers who dictate pricing. I now look for secondhand gear as I am no longer prepared to pay such ridiculous prices. The exception on my comment above is Tokai where you can get a superior product at half the price of a Fender.
Saddle and Nut

The pricing of a Tokai vs a Fender isn't the issue. What is the issue is the price of a Tokai HERE v the price of the same guitar THERE.

NB! I am not suggesting for one moment that Tokai SA isn't doing business in a decent, ethical way. My point is that S&N isn't comparing two of the same kind of fruit.

I also wonder why, if the ripoffs are so massive and so blatant and the suppliers could be selling more kit if they weren't such crooks, there aren't people bringing in the kit directly and selling it at the sort of prices we think are fair. How hard can it be?

Norman86

As long as there are consumers willing to pay the higher prices, do you honestly believe that the suppliers will drop their prices???
They will rather sell 1 guitar at 200% profit, than 10 guitars at 20% profit!
They know they're in a commanding seat, because how many people will end up importing their own amps? or will bother to look at overseas pricing?

I have one further observation...
When people are able to buy directly from the suppliers themselves because they're friends with them, do you think they're paying the price you pay in the shop? im just saying...
Its easy to comment when one is not paying the full retail that everyone else is!

Bob-Dubery

Saddle and Nut wrote: Yes we are being ripped off. I will not buy any more Fender products based on their pricing.This applies to other brands as well. Perhaps its time the us the consumer start putting pressure on suppliers who take advantage of us the consumer. The retailers are not to blame

I'm not so sure the retailers are always devoid of responsibility when it comes to pricing.

A friend recently was shopping for a pedal and called the shop who stock that pedal and are the agents for SA. They quoted a price of X. Said friend, being the kind of person who spends time shopping for the best deal, called another shop who said "We don't stock that but we can get it from [the first shop]. We'll check with them and call you back."

They called back as promised. They quoted Y where X-Y = R150 (and where X < R1000)

So pricing in a retail outlet isn't necessarily influenced only by the big bad supplier.

The retailer is, of course, entitled to price things as they wish and we're entitled to shop around for the best deal.

AlanRatcliffe

Norman86 wrote: When people are able to buy directly from the suppliers themselves because they're friends with them, do you think they're paying the price you pay in the shop?

So? They able to cut out the retailer and are usually buying at the same price the retailer does. Does that mean the retailers are the evil ones making the products expensive? Of course not - they have overheads and expect to make a profit (just like the distributors do). Each step in the chain has expenses that inflate the end price.

Its easy to comment when one is not paying the full retail that everyone else is!

Similarly, it's easy to blithely comment with no knowledge of the industry. It's also easy to avoid responding to the comment by those that do (or apparently even bother reading it).

I'm done...

Bob-Dubery

Norman86 wrote: When people are able to buy directly from the suppliers themselves because they're friends with them, do you think they're paying the price you pay in the shop? im just saying...

Of course they're not paying the retail price.

But tell me, if, they then started selling those amplifiers on, with staff that required paying and rent to pay on premises and insurance policies and shop fitting costs and the cost of having the item on the floor until somebody pays for it, do you think they'd sell it for more than they paid for it and would you think that making a profit is unfair or unethical?

Norman86

If i remember correctly, i have complained the whole time about the suppliers...
but hey, whatever...
Lets just keep pretending there isnt a problem with super inflated prices!
The longer we keep out mouths shut, the longer us consumers will keep getting ripped off. FACT.

im out over this subject now too!

Sean

kapepper wrote: Mmmm might think of starting to import fender amps from europe ?

Absolutely!! :applause: Yes, please do so :-\