Real or Fake?? Gibson Les Paul 'Custom' on Gumtree

ZarK

Hi Guys

I saw this ad on Gumtree and as I'm not a Les Paul expert, I wondered what some of you might think? Is this the real deal or potentially a fake? The Gibson logo on the headstock doesn't seem right to my eyes, neither does the tuning pegs or certificate.

What's your take on this instrument?

http://capetown.gumtree.co.za/c-Stuff-for-Sale-musical-instruments-Gibson-Guitar-Les-Paul-Custom-W0QQAdIdZ270464282#

vic

Firstly it's not a Les Paul Custom.. and imo it's not a historic division instrument either....eg R8 or R9 etc......the serial number is wrong for a historic reissue of any year. Secondly the tuners are wrong for a historic guitar, as well as the placement of the trussrod cover. Unfortunately the case is open so one cannot see the inscription on the front of the lid.
His other ad is for a Martin guitar...

Charlie4

Vic has clearly pointed out why people like you and I won't do business with such a person, he's selling something for R30 000 and has no idea what he's talking about.
Even if it was legit, that's a lot of money to be lost in in the dark.

nick

I thought customs always had this on their headstocks

AlanRatcliffe

Fake. Two screws in the truss cover and the Gibson logo is a decal instead of an inlay. No need to look further.

The seller says it was "bought new", which tells me he either knows it's a fake or didn't buy it new - fail either way. Also the way the headstock closeup shot cuts off the lower part of the truss cover says to me that he's trying to hide the second screw.

nick

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Fake. Two screws in the truss cover and the Gibson logo is a decal instead of an inlay. No need to look further.

The seller says it was "bought new", which tells me he either knows it's a fake or didn't buy it new - fail either way. Also the way the headstock closeup shot cuts off the lower part of the truss cover says to me that he's trying to hide the second screw.

Gibsons have two screw trussrod covers? Its the Epiphones that have 3.. otherwise my studio is a fake too ?

raithza

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Fake. Two screws in the truss cover [...]

You sure? I thought gibsons were supposed to have 2 screws.... according to http://reviews.ebay.com/How-to-spot-a-fake-Gibson-Les-Paul_W0QQugidZ10000000001322912 at least

G-Man

And is the s/n on the certificate of authenticity supposed to be written in pen?

AlanRatcliffe

raithza wrote: You sure? I thought gibsons were supposed to have 2 screws.... according to http://reviews.ebay.com/How-to-spot-a-fake-Gibson-Les-Paul_W0QQugidZ10000000001322912 at least

Correct. Temporary brain seizure. SOrry! :-[

Reinhard

All my Gibsons have 2 screws in the trussrod. The logo isn't a decal, one can sometimes see that little rim around the logo. The case looks like my custom shop cases.
Double ring tuners I am not sure about, but it is the typical snot green tuners Gibson uses. Maybe it is one of those 1960 reissues done for Guitar centre, but I think those had a G0 designation. Guy must have meant it is Custom Shop and not "LP Custom"
Hard to tell from the pics whether it is real or not, but at first glance it looks real to me. Maybe some custom run.
Mailed Gibson the serial so lets see what they say.

singemonkey

Agreed. Only thing I thought was strange was the tuners and the clueless description. Something about the way Gibson does the logo inlay leads to that "rim" around the edges. Generally the quality and layout of the guitar look superficially correct. Case also looks like a CS case.

If it's an R8 (don't know the score with the serial numbers) then the plain top and the finish is fine, as is the TRC. Just weird double-ring tuners. Could be a traditional dolled up to look like an R8.

All in all a clueless sale of an instrument that may be legit, but it raises more questions than it answers.

vic

Reinhard wrote: All my Gibsons have 2 screws in the trussrod. The logo isn't a decal, one can sometimes see that little rim around the logo. The case looks like my custom shop cases.
Double ring tuners I am not sure about, but it is the typical snot green tuners Gibson uses. Maybe it is one of those 1960 reissues done for Guitar centre, but I think those had a G0 designation. Guy must have meant it is Custom Shop and not "LP Custom"
Hard to tell from the pics whether it is real or not, but at first glance it looks real to me. Maybe some custom run.
Mailed Gibson the serial so lets see what they say.

I am not sure about the designation "Custom shop "guitar in this case. AFAIK the Custom shop builds Historic re-issues which have a different format for the serial number. That serial number indicates a 2008 model and does exist in the Gibson data base.
Yes, Gibson trussrod covers have only 2 screws. However in Historic Les Pauls (after 2001/2) there's a gap of about 4mm between the nut and the bottom of the cover. And from one picture it would appear as if this is not the case here....Also the tuners are single ring in all Historics from the Custom shop. This one has double ring tuners.
As Reinhard says it may be a special run by the Custom shop ? BUT it's not a "Historic" and thus much too much for that guitar imo.
I have checked the Certificate of Authenticity against an "authentic' example....it looks legit. (the serial numbers are written in ink). Even the signature of Rick Gembar is fine.

vic

nick wrote:

I thought customs always had this on their headstocks

Quite correct Nick. That guitar is not a LP Custom

ZarK

Reinhard wrote: All my Gibsons have 2 screws in the trussrod. The logo isn't a decal, one can sometimes see that little rim around the logo. The case looks like my custom shop cases.
Double ring tuners I am not sure about, but it is the typical snot green tuners Gibson uses. Maybe it is one of those 1960 reissues done for Guitar centre, but I think those had a G0 designation. Guy must have meant it is Custom Shop and not "LP Custom"
Hard to tell from the pics whether it is real or not, but at first glance it looks real to me. Maybe some custom run.
Mailed Gibson the serial so lets see what they say.

I never thought this was a Les Paul Custom, therefore the 'Custom' in inverted commas in the subject line. I'm looking forward to hear Gibson's reply...

I've found that three versions of the double ring Kluson tuners where used on Les Pauls. 1. mid-1960-1964 2. 1965-1969 3. 1969-1974.
Kluson went out of business in 1974. The name was purchased in 1990 when re-issues of these tuners started being made again.

P.S. If it's not unusual to have a rim around the Gibson logo, then I have to question the level of finish Gibson is satisfied with... Especially if this ends up being a Custom shop model...

Reinhard

I think it has to do with the nitro finish as opposed to the poly finishes you get on other brands. Same way you get checking in a nitro finish and not in a poly finish.

vic

Mystery solved... ? The guitar is a 2005 Custom Shop Classic Reissue of a 1960 Les Paul.

It is not equivalent to an R-0....it sells for less.... What the exact diff's are, I don't know.

Same guitar as here:

http://www.guitar-museum.com/guitar-50794-Gibson-Les-Paul-Custom-Shop-LPR-0-1960-Reissue

I spoke to the seller...it's all legit. He placed the wrong COA on Gumtree (one for an ES-175....also his guitar)...thus the unusual SN for a Custom Shop LP.
He bought the guitar from Guitar Centre in New York and has all the paperwork.
BTW: I noticed that the '60 RI has double ring tuners.

singemonkey

Cool stuff. Reckoned it had to be a Gibson at the very least. But it's hard to know why sellers - especially of unusual models - don't provide the necessary information. I mean, he's asking for R30K. People laying that down want info, surely?

Funny kind of model. Weren't pretty much all '60s flame-tops?

vic

singemonkey wrote: Cool stuff. Reckoned it had to be a Gibson at the very least. But it's hard to know why sellers - especially of unusual models - don't provide the necessary information. I mean, he's asking for R30K. People laying that down want info, surely?

Funny kind of model. Weren't pretty much all '60s flame-tops?

The guy did n't have a clue what he had there ....Only after I pointed out that the serial number on the COA and that on the back of the headstock must match, did he realize that he posted the wrong COA (that of his ES-175). Once I had the real SN and after much searching, could I identify it as a CS 2005 classic RI. These are made in the Custom shop for Guitar Center on order.
These guitars have the long tenon, are not weight relieved, but lack the bumblebee caps, pups, flame tops and CTS pots of the R-0 for eg. Their alnico pups are the same as those for the general production LP Std's..... they also come with Custom shop cases and the reviewers of these so-called G-0's rate them highly.

ZarK

Sorted. Learned a bit more about Les Pauls through my research and input from all of you. Many thanks! A little surprised at the quality of finish on the headstock seeing that it's a Custom shop model. Beautiful guitar though. I quite like the plain top...

vic

ZarK wrote: Sorted. Learned a bit more about Les Pauls through my research and input from all of you. Thanks for that! A little surprised at the quality of finish on the headstock seeing that it's a Custom shop model. Beautiful guitar though. I quite like the plain top...

Maybe one should check it out... :-\