Set length?

Bob-Dubery

I was having a chat with Hugh Cumming of Hugh's Fine Guitars last night. We got to talking about length of songs and length of sets. Hugh likes the songs to be short and sweet and thinks that a lot of people lay sets that are too long by far. Hugh has been to shows like Merlefest in the USA and says that most of the bluegrass/country stars (Doc Watson, Jerry Douglas, Tony Rice etc) do fairly short sets at such shows: +- 20 minutes, 4 or 5 numbers, thanks very much you've been a great audience. He says the audience doesn't get tired or bored, and everybody has a good time.

I've been to a few shows in the UK, mostly on the folky side of things, and I've generally observed the opposite - long sets, long shows. WHen I saw Martin Carthy he did two sets of about 45 minutes each. Martin Simpson did about 45 and 60 (including encores) minutes. Richard Thompson is the long distance runner in this lot - for a solo show he aims at 100 minutes, no break, excluding encores (band shows clock in at about 2 hours plus encores). Loudon Wainwright III did about an hour solo.

Now I have a notoriously short attention span so I struggle with anything that goes on for much more than 15 minutes. Yet Carthy in particular held my attention through those two sets (total show time then was 90 minutes). So I think it can be done - but I'm not sure it's easy.

Some of the bluegrass guys that Hugh admires and was referring to do a show in Glasgow each year that goes on for about 2 hours, though they are ringing the changes all the time by means of having a sort of house band and a roster of guests.

When I went to see Guy Buttery recently he clocked in at under an hour. Initially I felt a bit short changed, but then I thought that for what he does that time period is probably appropriate as it requires quite a lot of attention from the audience.

So I dunno.... I take Hugh's point, but I've seen people do much longer sets - though I don't think it's easy holding an audience for protracted periods of time.

The best guys are about more than playing the guitar and singing. Wainwright (who is by no means a great guitarist) does a good job and really takes the audience on an emotional roller coaster - which may be a key. The night I saw him he had the audience in stitches with a song about getting a guitar smashed by an airline. 15 minutes or so later he did a song dedicated to the late Kate McGarrigle and everybody was reaching for their hankies. He sometimes goes for pathos and a laugh in the same song. Martin Carthy really doesn't operate as a singer or as a guitar player (and he is a really good player) but as a story teller.

I thought about this after seeing Squonk's comments in another post about the length of a Joe Satriani set.

What's the deal with things like the Purple/Heep/Wishbone show - how long are the sets?

How long should a set be?

Is there a rule?

One more thing. I find loud shows quite hard to take after a while. Can that volume make the ears tired and the ears turn the brain off?

Keira-WitherKay

as always the length of set is "all about the money"

in our world of value for money thnking , a show needs to be perceived by the audience as being worth the money , and as you mentioned in the blugrass festival.sure they play 20 min sets but they prob feature at least 5 acts if the sets are so short ........

then thats where the money comes into that cos now the 5 bands must share the admission takings.....

so the thinking becomes instead of 5 bands lets do the same length show of 5 X 20 min sets ...... which is 100 min (which is average for a show anywhere in world is ussually just over an hour and a half) so let 2 bands play and he same admission fee is now split in half not in 5 ...that makes a huge difference when the performance income pays the bills....

then of course we step up to the final scenario/choice where the main artist employs a young upcoming often local act to "open " the show.often these opening bands get paid almost no fee, since they will be eager for the exposure, then the main act will do an hour show and maybe an encore or two .and again we have the average length of about 100 min - 120 min which any audience is happy to fork over the cash for...........

so in my world it's all about the money ....if it's a free concert the sets can be how ever long or short as one likes.......or if the muso's are donating their time for say a worthy cause ......... or willing to work for a fraction of the fee they could have on a smaller bill because of exposure at a major event.....

remember many festivals don't even pay the artists ...... unless they the headline acts so they( the organisers) can afford to have lots of acts with short 30 min sets..... and amazingly bands accept that ..... thats why so many original acts are all musicians with day jobs...cos many "multiple bll gigs and festivals" just don't pay the artists or toss in a case of beer.... ? which seem tho defuse the debate on fee's

i'm not saying it's the right way but this is the professional way that determines set length .as i said it's "all about the money honey"

Malkav

I suppose it depends on your target audience, I'm a huge Dream Theater fan and on average their shows are about 3 hours long. No break just a keyboard solo sorta intermission kinda thing.

If I had it my way and my band had that much material and people were interested enough I'd happily do the same ? With prog music in general I guess long songtimes are a norm so it's kinda expected the set lengths would be ridiculous. Dream Theater in particular have a song that is about 25 minutes long on it's own so that would be almost a set to most people ? Of course this is South Africa so there are probably like 10 people who are into prog and 4 of them are in my band ? so long set times are probably not gonna happen ?

Squonk

Chad Adam Browne wrote: Of course this is South Africa so there are probably like 10 people who are into prog and 4 of them are in my band ? so long set times are probably not gonna happen ?

Hey I am one of them ?