Paid-Version

NorioDS · 2011-03-04T15:20:11+00:00

This may be a can of worms I'm opening here but, I'm curious, so... Would you pay a monthly fee for access to a "premium" version of GFSA, with no ads? If so, how much and what would you expect in return in addition to it being ad-free?

MikeM

Do the big stores really not want to advertise here? ???

Bob-Dubery

PeteM wrote Once the site owners charge a membership fee of any kind, they, in effect, lose exclusive ownership. In other words members will think it is their right rather than a privilege to enter into discourse... with potential chaotic time-consuming results for the owners.

More than that. There will soon be a feeling of "well it's 2 hours since I asked about adjusting my truss rod and STILL nothing. This is not what I pay good money for."

Donovan is barking up the right tree I think. You need to look at how sites that don't charge the user (EG Facebook or Google Groups) make money.

You also need to take aim at a higher target I think. I joined the forum run by Acoustic Guitar Magazine. Now that's a well known magazine with an international reputation. Guess what: The forum is moribund. I just gave up. GFSA is livelier and more informative.

Lose the "SA" out of "GFSA".

Bob-Dubery

guitarboy2828 wrote I think Bob should auction his Morgan off and give the proceeds to the forum to help run it..

I'm in R5k to start the bids.. ?

There's a reserve on that guitar. I've already been made a serious offer of 20k.

costafonix

X-rated Bob wrote
Lose the "SA" out of "GFSA".

hmmm now there's a thought :-\ but what about it being 'proudly South African'? on the other hand it does have a global ring to it.. explain the benefits Bob?

guitarboy2828

X-rated Bob wrote
guitarboy2828 wrote I think Bob should auction his Morgan off and give the proceeds to the forum to help run it..

I'm in R5k to start the bids.. ?
There's a reserve on that guitar. I've already been made a serious offer of 20k.

21k going once.. Going twice... ?

Another idea is to get big stores to get in onto the site and have them pay to advertise. AGF does this. Any sponsors have to pay to advertise and be on there. May be a good idea to do that here. Bands that want to put their music out there to sell must pay to advertise their gigs, which will be good for them to advertise to a bunch of guitarists in their area.

I duno, think that could work. I do think you should get that donate button up on the site soon, if nothing else, as I think some of us would be MORE than willing to throw some money onto that!

PeteM

Okay, so off the top of my head, where are these advertisers?
(Some have advertised here but many haven't)

Retail outlets
Paul Bothner (currently advertising)
Marshall Music (haven't seen them for a while)
The Tradelius Group outlets
Tuerk outlets
Cash Crusaders
Cash Converters
Plus all of the smaller boutique shops

Online outlets
MusicMadness (does advertise)
Guitartone (does advertise)
The international online stores

Distributors
Not much need for them to advertise their corporate brand but need to support their brands they represent. I'm sure some of them get an advertising budget from the manufacturers.
Tokai (does advertise)
Tuerk Tecnologies
Tradelius
Yamaha
Marshall Music
Paul Bothner
Tradelius

Manufacturers - brand-building advertising
Gibson, Fender, PRS, Yamaha, Tokai, Ibanez, Cort, Aria, Taylor, Larive, Laney, Peavey, Berringer, Roland/Boss, Marshall, Shure, Sennheiser, Ernie Ball, D'Darrio, Rotosound, Dunlop
The list is almost endless

Music & DVD outlets
Musica
Sight 'n Sound
Download sites

Computer hardware manufacturers/distributors
Apple
HP
Mecer

Computer software manufacturers/distributors/products
Protools
Cakewalk
Adobe Audition
Reaper
Sony Sound Forge
And many more that I can't think of right now.

Finance
Loan divisions of the banks
Consumer Credit
RCS
Short-term insurers.

I'm sure there are many more potential advertisers that I have missed and apologies to those advertisers on the site who are current or past advertisers who I might have left off the list.

The reason for this long post is that it would be a shame for GFSA to die because of a lack of income and this is an attempt to add my 2c worth to keep it alive. However, this is a very vibrant community and I believe that should it die, someone else who can capture a bigger advertising database will pick up the pieces.

Riaan-Combrink

CostaFonix wrote
X-rated Bob wrote Lose the "SA" out of "GFSA".
hmmm now there's a thought :-\ but what about it being 'proudly South African'? on the other hand it does have a global ring to it.. explain the benefits Bob?

There's already one by that name:
http://guitarforum.net/guitarist/index.php

But just looking at their stats shows one how great GFSA is doing. As an owner of a site with the traffic that GFSA has I would also want to look at a model for earning a return on the investment - both in terms of infrastructure but also expertise, time and effort, unpaid advice, free sharing of intellectual property, etc. That is only fair and common sense.

But I'm fully with the guys who think the answer lies in optimising ad revenue a la Facebook etc. The magic and beauty of GFSA for me is the fact that a total newbie can quickly access direct advice from published tech authors, IT professionals, amp-builders, etc etc etc. Someone mentioned the business model earlier. How would one now divide, eg, tech advice into premium and free categories without undermining the very basis of what made the forum model work in the first place?

So IMO it has to be in targeted advertsing, the involvement of the big music retailers (based on the siteprofile, they'd be crazy to say no) and online merchandising. BTW, just had a thought. With reference to the more limited premium idea Norio spoke of - what about having additional discounts, special offers and premium only competitions with the prizes sponsored by the big retailers. That would not deny the majority of the GFSAers anything they usually get for free, but be a real incentive for those who can afford it to pay a small monthly or annual subscription. If I could, eg, get access to discounts at say Marshall or Bothners and enter competitions for prizes where the (premium) pool is small (and hence improved odds of winning), I'd be willing to pay R50 or R100 a month for that. The only risk is what has been referred to as the idea of 1st and 2nd class GFSAers. But I don't think that will really happen if the premium content is NOT substantive (lessons, advice) but bonus type (small pool high value competitions, genuine discounts, etc). Why would the first group feel disparaged about not being ableto access such specific content? I think the vibe and esprit de corps of the active GFSA community is sufficiently mature to handle that.

But you'd have to find a way to make the premium comps and discounts make financial sense for the music retailers. You don't want them getting the subscription - that should go to the owners. For the retailers the cost of discounts and prizes should represent their advertsing spend (leaving the subscription, PLUS a payment from the retailers as quid pro quo for access to such a large market as an additional component of the retailers' advertising spend, for benefit of the owners).

That's why I firmly believe the owners should co-opt an ad and marketing guy into the clan, or hire a consultant to develop the model.

Riaan-Combrink

Sorry Guitarboy and Pete - didn't see your posts before I went. What they said!

PeteM

X-rated Bob wrote I joined the forum run by Acoustic Guitar Magazine. Now that's a well known magazine with an international reputation. Guess what: The forum is moribund. I just gave up. GFSA is livelier and more informative.

Yes, but how long will it last if there is little or no revenue? The question posed by Norio in this thread clearly indicates a money concern.

Bob-Dubery

CostaFonix wrote
X-rated Bob wrote
Lose the "SA" out of "GFSA".

hmmm now there's a thought :-\ but what about it being 'proudly South African'? on the other hand it does have a global ring to it.. explain the benefits Bob?

It's just that this is by no means the worst guitar-oriented forum on the Interweb, so maybe it needs to extend it's outreach and that might bring in advertisers other than SA companies looking to sell to a small community (guitar players) in SA.

That would change the forum though, so it's swings and roundabouts. There may be less talk of who you can see at TJs this month or what Tony Cox is up to. The current generous spirit that we still have here may be diluted. All sorts of things may happen. The forum will live, but it will change too.

Not that saying that's bad or good - but it will happen.

Bob-Dubery

guitarboy2828 wrote I duno, think that could work. I do think you should get that donate button up on the site soon, if nothing else, as I think some of us would be MORE than willing to throw some money onto that!

Trickier than you think. Technically maybe not so hard, but it means tax and accounting implications and enough of an audit trail that donors can be assured that their donation did go straight into GFSA.

Bob-Dubery

PeteM wrote
X-rated Bob wrote I joined the forum run by Acoustic Guitar Magazine. Now that's a well known magazine with an international reputation. Guess what: The forum is moribund. I just gave up. GFSA is livelier and more informative.
Yes, but how long will it last if there is little or no revenue? The question posed by Norio in this thread clearly indicates a money concern.

Which is not surprising. It costs money just to have this forum hosted and available. It takes time to add features and to moderate and administer. There's a squeeze on and GFSA cant' be immune to that.

I think this may be an early warning of an imminent death rattle, so it's not a bad time to think about what this forum is worth to me personally, how free free stuff actually is and so on.... all those happy little thoughts.

guitarboy2828

X-rated Bob wrote
guitarboy2828 wrote I duno, think that could work. I do think you should get that donate button up on the site soon, if nothing else, as I think some of us would be MORE than willing to throw some money onto that!
Trickier than you think. Technically maybe not so hard, but it means tax and accounting implications and enough of an audit trail that donors can be assured that their donation did go straight into GFSA.

Sigh, I didn't think about that.. ALthough I should've seeing as though I've just had to fill out all my tax stuff.. Well, if there is a monthly fee, surely all this would have to go into place as well though? So, if the thinking is along those lines, maybe Norio and Alan need to start getting the tax stuff sorted?

MIKA-the-better-one

I like what Bob is saying..... it makes sense

AlanRatcliffe

Thanks for all the opinions guys. Forgive me for sitting back and not taking part in discussion, but I wanted to let it run it's course naturally without undue influence from me. We have our own opinions, but it's nice to get others brainstorming on our behalf.

We do have some ideas, but need to do some more thinking about taking things to the next level - while still retaining (or even expanding on) the functionality and value offered by the site.

PeteM

Best of luck, Alan and Norio, in your evaluation, formulation and implementation of a successful business plan. You can count on my support should you need it.

---mario---

PeteM wrote Best of luck, Alan and Norio, in your evaluation, formulation and implementation of a successful business plan. You can count on my support should you need it.

+1, here as well ? (don't know if I'm able to be of use though, too many experts in all fields around here, I'll just keep talkin crap to keep the traffic up ? )

Riaan-Combrink

PeteM wrote Best of luck, Alan and Norio, in your evaluation, formulation and implementation of a successful business plan. You can count on my support should you need it.

Ditto ?

NorioDS

Lots of good stuff mentioned here. Some of it is stuff we (Alan and I) have talked about and tried and some of it is completely new. Some of it, however, is based on skewed information. The forum only gets about 1/4 of the pageviews shown in the stats. I imagine the rest of the views shown there are from bots (like spam bots, the search engines, and so on).

That brings our bargaining power down significantly. It's just not that big of a deal to advertise on a site with 200k-odd pageviews a month from 34k-odd visitors. So advertisers aren't exactly knocking down our door. They need someone to approach them and SELL the idea to them, which is something neither of us have the time to do. I'd be happy to do it, myself, but I really can't afford even an hour out of my day.

So, ideally, if we could find someone who would help us and be willing to run around ACTIVELY selling advertising and basically become a partner, focusing on selling advertising, sponsorships and things like that, that would work. Something like this needs dedication, though, so we're not going to jump into bed with the first person who comes along.

HOWEVER, this is totally separate to what I was talking about. I understand that some folk would feel that charging for added features might separate the community but that's life. You pay more, you get more. I'm NOT for a SECOND suggesting that we take something away from you because you're not paying. Not at all. Whatever you're getting now for free, you continue getting for free. But if we're going to add awesome new features to the site that add value to our members, and we charge for it, well I think that's perfectly fine. It's a service that those few who pay would be paying for - completely fair in my eyes.

Having said that, I have no idea what would be of value to you guys. I'm getting an idea of it now but that idea would need to develop a lot further before I'd actually go down that route. Rule #1 of business, to me, is add immense value.

Jack-Flash-Jr

How about this:
An annual (or whatever) GFSA Fundraising Concert in JHB, CT and DBN etc. where members who perform donate their set, other members come along and bring family, friends etc. Gate goes to GFSA....

« Previous Page Next Page »