Fake Chinese Gibsons - My Story! - GuitarTalk Community

tBird · 2011-02-23T16:34:55+00:00

Following a previous thread about the fake Gibsons being manufactured in China I secretly went about searching for these Chinese suppliers on the Internet wi...

Fake Chinese Gibsons - My Story!

singemonkey

Tonedef wrote:
singemonkey wrote: This guitar illustrates how unlikely it is that they'll ever make really convincing fakes. It's just not worth their while. They get all their bucks just for putting Gibson on the headstock of a ludicrously bad fake, what then do they gain by making it more like a Gibson?
The horrible irony of it is that they could probably make a really decent guitar, but if it said "Fong Kong Kuck" on the headstock, nobody would buy it. So it's a self-reinforcing paradox that they've locked themselves into, and it's enabled by people buying fakes.

If there's one thing my constant yawping about Asian guitars should suggest, it's that a lot of people are interested in well-made Asian guitars. They'd lose out and actually have to build their brand credibility. But ultimately they'd be making decent money providing quality products. These guys are just scam artists and probably have these guitars made in a furniture factory.

Bob-Dubery

Tonedef wrote:
singemonkey wrote: This guitar illustrates how unlikely it is that they'll ever make really convincing fakes. It's just not worth their while. They get all their bucks just for putting Gibson on the headstock of a ludicrously bad fake, what then do they gain by making it more like a Gibson?
The horrible irony of it is that they could probably make a really decent guitar, but if it said "Fong Kong Kuck" on the headstock, nobody would buy it. So it's a self-reinforcing paradox that they've locked themselves into, and it's enabled by people buying fakes.

Some Tokais are made in China. There is no reason why they can't make good instruments - and in fact they do. Eastman is a Chinese brand.

Just a reminder that not all imitations come out of China. There is a shop in California where you can buy very nice "Fenders" that may actually have one or two Fender components on them - one of those being the sticker on the headstock.

Cheap imitiation Gibsons are not the only guitars coming out of China, and China is not the only source of imitations.

Tonedef

Yes, certainly. I wasn't referring to the chinese as a whole, but specifically at the factories where they make these fakes. If you can put effort into making a copy that could potentially fool people, then you can obviously put that energy to good use and make a proper axe.

But like you say, they're not selling guitars, they're selling the Gibson logo. It must be pretty damn annoying for them to have to build a guitar to go along with it ?

shaunf

Just a couple of points:

Knowlingly buying fake goods is a crime, so forget about naming and shaming because the buyer in this case is just as guilty.

I can't honestly believe that you wasted several thousand rand on what you knew was a fake guitar. You could have saved that money and added to it over time and before you knew it, you could have at least owned a good secondhand LP Custom.

If you want something bad enough you have to work for it. I bought my LP Studio 16 years ago. It cost R5000.00 at the time and I only earned R1200.00pm. Put it on lay-bye and 6 months later I had my guitar.

Tonedef

+1! I dont get why tbird should be the only one eating humble pie. This scamster dealer needs to eat piksteel pastei, imo. Your doing other, possibly honourably intentioned, buyers a disservice by not full disclosing all the details. Roll on the Consumer Protection Act!

singemonkey

shaunf wrote: Just a couple of points:

Knowlingly buying fake goods is a crime, so forget about naming and shaming because the buyer in this case is just as guilty.

How does this work? What if you're buying a "Fake Remington revolver from 1878," or a "German sword with the blade falsely marked, 'Toledo' from 1654" as a collector's item. You telling me that's a crime? It's ridiculous. The company involved should have to sue those responsible. The state shouldn't be actively doing their work for them at tax-payers expense.

Tonedef

Counterfeit Goods Act no. 37 of 1997. It's definitely illegal.

ETA: Here's a link. http://www.bowman.co.za/IntellectualProperty/AntiCounterfeiting.asp

Tbird isn't the one performing the crime, the dealer is. Remember that copyright law is internationally ratified.

DonovanB

singemonkey wrote: How does this work? What if you're buying a "Fake Remington revolver from 1878," or a "German sword with the blade falsely marked, 'Toledo' from 1654" as a collector's item. You telling me that's a crime? It's ridiculous. The company involved should have to sue those responsible. The state shouldn't be actively doing their work for them at tax-payers expense.

I'm not sure I follow you here?

tBird

Just an update guys! I received an email this morning at around 7 form the "seller" saying that he (Hazel) is prepared to send me a brand new replacement with case free of charge if I agreed to pay for the shipping costs to SA. Since then I've had 3 cups of coffee and half a packet of Marlboros while walking around the garden sweating and mulling this over. Shipping I'm told will be 160USD.

So I logged on to their chat software and he was online. Following some heated discussions to and fro and threatening to expose him on YouTube, guitar forums, Alibaba, Tradetang, etc etc, he was extremely apologetic, saying things like and I quote "I today your friend", "I not here dishonest", "our company for many years good service", "we help bring you happiness", " we solve problem now", " my company also 1 broken guitar", "my company we will replace your precious guitar for your respect we honorable company", "you pay shipping for 1 beautiful Gibson black guitar" etc etc . He also went on and apologized and said that the Chinese national holidays took place during the time (20 Jan to 14 Feb) that I made my purchase and that skeleton staff ran most operations in China during "our time of celebration" as he put it and that this probably accounted for the mishap.

I thought what the hell "once a fool - always a fool" and went ahead and paid for the shipping. He was very nice and "warm" in his attitude and basically said the guitar is in stock and will be shipped before the weekend via EMS.

So there, let's see what happens. If nothing turns up and I'm scammed yet again I will come back and reveal every little detail about this company - I promise!

PS: I've been made an offer for 3K from someone in Cape Town who will use the guitar for experimentation. :?

vic

singemonkey wrote: Hey vic, the shape of the headstock is all wrong too. The sides are almost parallel and straight. Even if the inlays are reasonable (although cheap looking). And the headstock angle is way off. Looks like an old Hohner a buddy used to have.

As to the serial numbers, don't you think that ship has sailed? All they need is about 40 (too many to memorise) and it's meaningless for figuring out whether the guitar is fake.

This guitar illustrates how unlikely it is that they'll ever make really convincing fakes. It's just not worth their while. They get all their bucks just for putting Gibson on the headstock of a ludicrously bad fake, what then do they gain by making it more like a Gibson?

Edit: Oh yeah. And, as you say, they haven't even bothered to stain the fretboard to make it look a little bit more like ebony.

+1, you're absolutely correct..

Norman86

tBird wrote: Just an update guys! I received an email this morning at around 7 form the "seller" saying that he (Hazel) is prepared to send me a brand new replacement with case free of charge if I agreed to pay for the shipping costs to SA. Since then I've had 3 cups of coffee and half a packet of Marlboros while walking around the garden sweating and mulling this over. Shipping I'm told will be 160USD.

So I logged on to their chat software and he was online. Following some heated discussions to and fro and threatening to expose him on YouTube, guitar forums, Alibaba, Tradetang, etc etc, he was extremely apologetic, saying things like and I quote "I today your friend", "I not here dishonest", "our company for many years good service", "we help bring you happiness", " we solve problem now", " my company also 1 broken guitar", "my company we will replace your precious guitar for your respect we honorable company", "you pay shipping for 1 beautiful Gibson black guitar" etc etc . He also went on and apologized and said that the Chinese national holidays took place during the time (20 Jan to 14 Feb) that I made my purchase and that skeleton staff ran most operations in China during "our time of celebration" as he put it and that this probably accounted for the mishap.

I thought what the hell "once a fool - always a fool" and went ahead and paid for the shipping. He was very nice and "warm" in his attitude and basically said the guitar is in stock and will be shipped before the weekend via EMS.

So there, let's see what happens. If nothing turns up and I'm scammed yet again I will come back and reveal every little detail about this company - I promise!

PS: I've been made an offer for 3K from someone in Cape Town who will use the guitar for experimentation. :?

? ???

Dude, im flabbergasted. flummoxed. i would like to swear in so many extremeties...

I honestly honestly HONESTLY cannot believe you would have done that...

But who am i to judge?!

RobK

tBird wrote: Just an update guys! I received an email this morning at around 7 form the "seller" saying that he (Hazel) is prepared to send me a brand new replacement with case free of charge if I agreed to pay for the shipping costs to SA. Since then I've had 3 cups of coffee and half a packet of Marlboros while walking around the garden sweating and mulling this over. Shipping I'm told will be 160USD.

So I logged on to their chat software and he was online. Following some heated discussions to and fro and threatening to expose him on YouTube, guitar forums, Alibaba, Tradetang, etc etc, he was extremely apologetic, saying things like and I quote "I today your friend", "I not here dishonest", "our company for many years good service", "we help bring you happiness", " we solve problem now", " my company also 1 broken guitar", "my company we will replace your precious guitar for your respect we honorable company", "you pay shipping for 1 beautiful Gibson black guitar" etc etc . He also went on and apologized and said that the Chinese national holidays took place during the time (20 Jan to 14 Feb) that I made my purchase and that skeleton staff ran most operations in China during "our time of celebration" as he put it and that this probably accounted for the mishap.

I thought what the hell "once a fool - always a fool" and went ahead and paid for the shipping. He was very nice and "warm" in his attitude and basically said the guitar is in stock and will be shipped before the weekend via EMS.

So there, let's see what happens. If nothing turns up and I'm scammed yet again I will come back and reveal every little detail about this company - I promise!

PS: I've been made an offer for 3K from someone in Cape Town who will use the guitar for experimentation. :?

Dude, all I have to say is that the money you spent on this fake guitar(s) would've brought you that much closer to your dream guitar if you'd put it away.

Also, you can't sell that fake as is - that would also be illegal, IINM.

Tonedef

Pleased Weng Shi! Cover dirt 2.5cm, should Chu and gradually increase lightning.

When 5-6cm high times, transplant and should be okay!

The happiness grows personally!

RobK

Tonedef wrote: Pleased Weng Shi! Cover dirt 2.5cm, should Chu and gradually increase lightning.

When 5-6cm high times, transplant and should be okay!

The happiness grows personally!

Manual for a washing machine?

tBird

Tonedef wrote: Pleased Weng Shi! Cover dirt 2.5cm, should Chu and gradually increase lightning.

When 5-6cm high times, transplant and should be okay!

The happiness grows personally!

? ? ? ? ?

Hey everyone, don't get so worked up about this. I'm doing this as a fool's experiment, and fully aware of it. Just follow this thread and gain valuable knowledge about these people as I go along. In a few weeks we should have closure and I will give everyone all the details of the various dealers that does this kind of trade.

I am just reluctant at this point to reveal the online store's identity since I have personally purchased perfectly legitimate non-musical Chinese items from them during earlier times that arrived within a week or 2 in perfect condition. This bloke Hazel probably has an agreement with the store to use their online facilities to sell his guitars and gives them a %. I suppose this puts them in the same boat as him . . but anyway!

singemonkey

Wow dude. Well, I hope you're happy with your replacement plywood fake. It's not worth $160, and it's certainly not worth the R3,000 this idiot is willing to pay you. That's more than you'd pay for a new Yamaha Pacifica, which is a really good guitar. And this, frankly is not even close to being a good guitar. And it's broken FFS! Very dishonest to take so much money from him.

Of course, he may be planning on fixing it up and selling it for R14,000 as "Gibson Les Paul Custom! Minor neck repair." Which is a big part of why buying fake guitars is seriously wrong. Most people who buy the Chinese fakes directly know that they're fakes - which we've just heard is illegal. The people that those people then sell the guitars on to, often don't.

Well. Your "honorable" friend in China will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Tonedef

RobK wrote:
Tonedef wrote: Pleased Weng Shi! Cover dirt 2.5cm, should Chu and gradually increase lightning.

When 5-6cm high times, transplant and should be okay!

The happiness grows personally!
Manual for a washing machine?

No, the sticker on a mini cucumber pot plant I once bought at Discount Cash 'n Carry ?

It's full of hillarious chingrish, I should take pics.

tubescreamer63

Sad story. Just seen a genuine Gibson Les paul on junkmail for 12k! Might still be there if you hurry.

StephenG

RobK wrote:
Tonedef wrote: Pleased Weng Shi! Cover dirt 2.5cm, should Chu and gradually increase lightning.

When 5-6cm high times, transplant and should be okay!

The happiness grows personally!
Manual for a washing machine?

no, TBirds jail time experience he will get to experience.. for not once, but twice now admiting to breaking the law...

deefstes

IceCreamMan wrote:would of been easier to just shut up but you took the hard road

Forgive me for wearing my grammar police hat for a short while here but this grammar mistake really intrigues me as it makes absolutely no sense and I see it SO often. It must be the most common mistake that I see in Facebook status updates. What does "would of" mean? What is it that causes one person to hear "would of" when another says "would've" or "would have" and not immediately think "how on earth does that sentence make sense?"