nick_D01
hey guys
any on the forum have any experience owning and driving an (80's) alfa romeo. i'm looking at getting a 2nd hand car and one's just popped up on gumtree, so i'm just interested in finding out how easy/hard they are to maintain, if its hard finding parts as well as a decent mechanic.
IceCreamMan
unless u love working on cars ......stay away. these are generally high maintenance cars HOWEVER the GTV (2.5 and 3.0 which was a ZA model only) of yesteryear were absolute thrilling and enjoyable rides demanding high levels of skill an concentration (when giving it gas) rewarding the driver with a great experience and dammit those cars looked hot and still do.
if you a car lover and want a specific alfa for fun an excitement go for it ...if u just looking for a ride ....rather buy a golf from that era.
but check it out thoroughly ..them alfas were notorious and if it breaks you gonnaa cough
nick_D01
thank you sir, points noted. will prob steer clear of 'em then.
Bob-Dubery
Wot 'e just said!
Alfas are great cars when they're running. I'd also not be keen on owning one on the coast (or one that's been kept on the coast).
Tonedef
You'll never find any alfas that were at the coast. Youll find four spare tyres, though!
I grew up on Alfas, my first car was a Sprint105 Veloce. Loved that car. I wouldnt necessarily stay away. They ARE going on 25+ years already but realistically they will tend to be in better shape than say a golf of that age as owners tend to treat them with more care. They ARE considered classics so need to be treated as such and require substantial maintenance moolah. As for maccies, there was a guy at Alfissimo who did all my engine work, name is Amadeo. The guy has MAGIC alfa hands. This was years ago though, no idea if he is still around. But alfissimo is the only show in town for these cars.
VellaJ
2nd-hand cars are all the same. It all depends on the PREVIOUS OWNER...
I drive a 2000 model Alfa 156. Now I know it's a full 20 years or so younger than your 80's models, but I've never had anything go wrong with it that wasn't my fault, despite some car magazines saying it was as reliable as a crack addict...
Spare parts: Available, but certainly pricy... More modern Alfas will be easier to maintain, but the older ones are MUCH easier to work on yourself, if you're that way inclined...
Personally, I think Alfas are amazing cars, cars for true conniseurs. Providing you know what the car has been through with the past owner, you can pick up amazing 2nd hand bargains, due to the (sometimes ridiculously) low re-sale value.
My advice: Check out the car and service history. Take a good long look... Bob has a point, cars at the coast can have some hectic problems, especially old ones. If you're happy with the condition and the price, I'd say go for it ?
Wizard
Alfa's are the most frustrating cars on the planet.
They are the most beautiful and the ultimate driver's car ... and the worst investment on the planet.
(you can hear them depreciate at night)
I went to the TopGear live show in Cape Town.
There was one empty seat in the whole arena.
Jeremy Clarkson said: "see - this guy tried to get here in an Alfa!".
But I really, really, really like that 147 ...
If only they made them with decent quality ...
G-Man
Wizard wrote
(you can hear them depreciate at night)
Haha!
AndrewD
My Land Rover is way cheaper to maintain than my Alfa was....
Awesome when working well but that's few and far between. However I think anyone that has an automotive appreciation beyond just a tool to get to work and back should own an Alfa at some point in their lives.
Tonedef
AndrewD wrote
I think anyone that has an automotive appreciation beyond just a tool to get to work and back should own an Alfa at some point in their lives.
This.
And to get it out of your system, lol.
But let's face it... the eye ties know how to style four wheels.
Still one of the most beautifully proportioned cars ever made. I would actually buy one if it was in good nick.
G-Man
I like it, looks very stylish. They say that you aren't a true petrol-head until you've owned an Alfa. I have a friend who's dad was bib into them, he would have 2 or 3 in his workshop at any given time, sprucing them up (getting them to run haha) and selling them on. Apparently from a mechanical point of view they are kak to work on...
Tonedef
G-Man wrote
Apparently from a mechanical point of view they are kak to work on...
Yes. They are full of clever engineering solutions that were put in via the heart and gonads as opposed to the head. The brain, that is.
My Alfasud Sprint 105 (Sort of like a scaled down GTV in the pic above), for example, had a 1.5l flat four with aluminium alloy heads. The alloy had a very high proportion of Aluminium in it, which meant that you had to slowly warm the car up for two or three minutes before driving off, or the heads would warp. This in turn was hell on the bores, since a slow warm-up is the worst thing you can do for an engine's life-span. And it had twin webers on each side which were a nightmare to calibrate in tandem.
The front brake disks were inboard (i.e next to the gearbox as opposed to mounted on the hub) to save unsprung weight and centralise mass, but to change the disks meant you had to drop the engine a couple of inches. And you needed a specialised spigot pin to mate the gearbox with the engine. Access from above was very restricted, the engine could only be removed from underneath the car. Nightmares all round.
It was a lovely little tight-handling car, and 77kw (105bhp, hence the nomeclature) from a carb-fed 1500 was unheard of for the day. Even today it would be remarkable. The driving position was extreme, you almost lay down in it (and needed monkey arms to reach the steering wheel)
IceCreamMan
first car was an alfa dud too ...it made good power for the day an engine size it must be said but not too friendly to work on. that car served me well though but ja the warm up procedure was painful and when it broke it was expensive...it did howver teach me about cars an repairing em.
my mate had a gtv 2.5 which was a stunnign car to drive ...if i could find an example like the one above i would probably buy it too if in good nick..they are special cars .. remember desmond white racing these in the 80's ...amongst others ......old kyalami straight with a gtv 6 soming down it was a beauty to behold
VellaJ
Tonedef wrote
The alloy had a very high proportion of Aluminium in it, which meant that you had to slowly warm the car up for two or three minutes before driving off, or the heads would warp. This in turn was hell on the bores, since a slow warm-up is the worst thing you can do for an engine's life-span.
Disagree. Your engine is wearing
horribly when it's cold, as the fine tolerances basically increase the friction within the engine (Which is why F1 cars can't be started when cold, they need warm fluid to be pumped around the engine before starting). When it's warm, your engine is much happier... This is noted on my 156. Doesn't perform
at all when cold, get it up to 70 degrees and WA-HEY!
From the day my 156 was bought by my dad, it's been warmed up for a few minutes before heading off. Opened the engine up a year ago to do some maintenance, and after 270,000 km, not a sign of wear on those pistons.
Tonedef
VellaJ wrote
Tonedef wrote
The alloy had a very high proportion of Aluminium in it, which meant that you had to slowly warm the car up for two or three minutes before driving off, or the heads would warp. This in turn was hell on the bores, since a slow warm-up is the worst thing you can do for an engine's life-span.
Disagree. Your engine is wearing
horribly when it's cold, as the fine tolerances basically increase the friction within the engine (Which is why F1 cars can't be started when cold, they need warm fluid to be pumped around the engine before starting). When it's warm, your engine is much happier... This is noted on my 156. Doesn't perform
at all when cold, get it up to 70 degrees and WA-HEY!
Erm.... ??? That's wot I said innit?
VellaJ
What I'm saying is, it's worse to not warm your car up before setting off. Slow warm-up is exactly what you need to do.
Tonedef
VellaJ wrote
What I'm saying is, it's worse to not warm your car up before setting off. Slow warm-up is exactly what you need to do.
You're dead wrong on this, mate. You need to drive off immediately but taking it easy, this ensures the shortest possible warm-up time.
VellaJ
Other people are going to hate me for carrying on with this... ?
If you're taking it easy, not revving above about 2000 rpm, yeah you can do that. What really hurts the car is starting it up and immediately burning off into the distance... My dad's good friend used to do that. A year later it needed an engine re-build...
WRT the slow warm-up; the only thing this is hurting is the catalytic converter(s), as condensation within them can be created in a prolonged warm up. However, I would rather have some messed cats than an engine re-build.
Tonedef
The combustion process has a number of byproducts, the most relevant to this discussion is water, carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide and sulfur dioxide (particularly relevant for diesel engines), and carbon soot.
When the engine is cold, combustion is incomplete, and not all of the fuel is burnt. This unburnt fuel condenses on the cylinder bores and valve stems, and it washes away the boundary oil film. That's factor number one. To make matters even worse, when the engine is cold and the management system/auto- or manual choke makes the mixture richer, resulting in more condensation.
The water byproduct also condenses when the engine is cold, and the carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide and sulfur dioxide gasses dissolve in the water droplets to form carbonic, nitric and sulfuric acid, respectively.
Now you have all these acids percolating on your combustion surfaces, and no boundary oil layer to guard against it because the unburnt fuel washed it away. THAT is where cold-running engine wear comes from.
Modern multi-grade oils have made cold-running mechanical wear on the crank and small end pretty much a thing of the past, they still give excellent protection when cold, provided there is enough oil pressure.
What all this means is that you need to get the engine up to operating temperature as quickly as possible in the fewest number of combustion cycles. If you simply idle an engine, you have low combustion pressure (because there is little compressive load on the piston) and the heat generated by the combustion process disappears out the exhaust manifold. However, if there is load on the pistons (by dint of the engine having to transfer torque to the wheels), your combustion chamber pressure under ignition is greatly increased and the temperatures generated are higher per combustion cycle, and the engine heats up faster. It's simple physics. Boyle's law.
In addition, idling makes the carbon soot build up in the ring grooves, this makes them seat improperly, and you have premature wear.
VellaJ
I think I'll agree to disagree ?
