Badly set up guitars

cain

Hehe norrie 🙂 Its astonishing to see how many people play with badly set up guitars. Bad actions, out intonation, sharp frets etc ☹

NorioDS

You're right, Francis. Most of us don't know what we're doing.

I love playing guitar but, honestly speaking, I want someone else to set up my axe. The way I see it is that I can focus on improving my playing instead of spreading my energy across the musical AND technical spheres of axemanship 🙂 (My new word, OK?)

Despite that, I must also admit that I'd love to at least KNOW what's wrong with my guitar so I know what to ask someone to fix and so I know when he's not done a good enough job of it.

I think that's a pretty balanced way of approaching it.

What do you guys think?

cain

I think being able to set it up yourself is essential. Sometimes it takes ages gettings your axe back from a guitar tech as they are very busy, leaving your without a practice instrument for days.

The other reason is, just before going to a gig, you can check your intonation etc just to make sure you are happy with it. Especially when you start gigging allot more.

AlanRatcliffe

I'm firmly of the belief that every player should be able to do basic setup tasks like bridge action, intonation and (as I've mentioned before) neck relief (truss rods). If you can't, you are at the mercy of someone else for these basic tasks - and there are a lot of hackers out there masquerading as luthiers.

A big problem we have locally is that the local distributors do not do any kind of setup on the guitars they sell. Your better shops will, but for many players - especially beginners - they don't know any better, and presume how they get it is how it is. You'd think shops (especially the larger ones) would have someone on staff whose job it is to set up the stock - after all, a well set up instrument is easier to sell, and the setup guy will usually pick up any major problems before the instrument is sold and returned by an unhappy customer.

Some big brand manufacturers don't do any factory setup on their instruments at all, they believe that it's better done in the end users country by the distributors, so as the local guys don't do this, you can buy a 10-15K instrument and it has had no setup done at all! Unfortunately the SA consumer is by-and-large apathetic and does not push for better service, so this kind of thing persists.

If you are buying an instrument, be aware that you are well within your rights to ask the store to set it up before you walk out with it. Usually the sales person will do it themselves to ensure the sale. You might end up with a generic setup that isn't perfect (salespeople are not automatically master luthiers), but it's better than no setup at all. Also, if you are buying a guitar with a Floyd Rose or other floating bridge system that is difficult to set up, you should ask the shop to put a set of your favourite strings on (even if you have to buy a set - although push a little and you will usually find the salesperson will throw in a set too) and have them set it up for those. Otherwise, the first time you change strings the bridge will shift due to tension change and you are nearly back where you started.

cain

Theres only two guys i allow to setup my guitars.

Grant ( Guitarist from sandbox ) and formally owned smashing guitars. One of the best guitar techs ive seen. Allan should know him.

And

Chris Jackobs that works at Matts Music.

Bane

Spot on Alan, never buy a new axe WITHOUT getting the strings you want. And there is no universally correct setup as each individual has his own preference when it comes to action, gauge etc. I must admit (being from Cape Town) if I had to give my axe in for a setup or repair then i would give it to the guys at marshall music in town. They are all great guys and know what they are doing. You should try and learn yourself, but if you HAVE to then that is the place I would go. Well with this forum you have going on I think alot of people are on the path to enlightenment. 😀

Bane

Hmmm I just realised all the members that posted here (except me) are admins. Hope i didn't intrude 🙂

AlanRatcliffe

🙂 Just coincidence - back in November I wasn't an admin and I think we still had less than 100 members.

JoeyBones

I've had my guitars setup at Andy Mcgibbons, TOMS and Marshalls and eventually I got my guitarist friend from church to shown me how to do the basics. I leave the more technical stuff to the pros. My buddy helped me sort out the frets on my hagstrom and got the guy he works for to check my Duo Jet's tuning issues.

BTW All he did was oil the rollers on the bridge and the nut and its holding tune much better. I can get through a service without having to tune up after a sound check. I check it anyway though.

Malkav

Well I think that it is a better idea to setup your own guitars as it's very unlikely that someone else will play with the same pressure or style etc...
so at least you know that once you've setup your own equipment it'll meet your standard however if you are still a novice and aren't completely sure that you know exactly what you want from your setup then rather talk to an experienced guitar tech about the style of music you play and let them explain to you what it is they'll do in the setup to meet your needs but don't do it yourself (this way you have a guitar to compare with).

As for bigger distributing brands not doing their own setups I personally agree that a guitar should not be shipped setup as the change in humidity and temperature can change the setup entirely and in the case of the truss rod being tight when shipping may warp or damage the neck so it's better to rather have it setup in your climate 🙂

AlanRatcliffe

As for bigger distributing brands not doing their own setups I personally agree that a guitar should not be shipped setup as the change in humidity and temperature can change the setup entirely and in the case of the truss rod being tight when shipping may warp or damage the neck so it's better to rather have it setup in your climate

>☹ Sorry, but that is the kind of crap Gibson peddle to try and excuse the fact that they don't bother setting up their guitars. As mentioned in another thread it is impossible to do quality control unless a guitar is setup first. How do you check the frets if the action is high, the string radius is wrong and the truss rod is not set correctly?

So what happens is a guitar lands at it's destination and when it is set up, you discover that the frets are uneven (or even in the wrong damn place!), the neck angle is wrong, the bridge is in the wrong position and cannot be intonated - I've seen all of these things repeatedly in the course of repairing guitars for the local Gibson distributor. Gibson doesn't give a shit, because it's the distributor that carries the cost, not them - it's not worth shipping a guitar back. They are essentially foisting off their QC reject costs onto the distributor.

All a manufacturer need do is set it up properly in the factory, then drop the tuning a tone and slacken the truss by a 1/4 turn and it's perfect for shipping. On the other side all that then needs doing is a quick tweak and a tune up and 99.9% of the time everything will be right.

The guitar and it's neck are designed to withstand changing weather conditions up to the extremes in temperature and humidity. That's the whole reason there is a truss rod in a guitar neck in the first place. Slacking the truss off completely makes it more susceptible to damage from extremes as you have just removed all the support and reinforcement from the neck.

If a neck warps during shipping, it was quite simply not made properly in the first place.

Now look - you've got me all a lather (the likes have not been seen since the great silicon polish debacle a few months ago). 😀

Malkav

Sorry about that, but still I prefer my own setups as I have a very *light* fretting techinique and find that almost any guitar I want to use must be setup accordingly 🙂

Bane

Hey chad!! yeah i agree, learn to do it yourself. It's not that hard and you get it just the way you want it. Also saves you cash! 🙂

Bob-Dubery

Chad Adam Browne wrote: Sorry about that, but still I prefer my own setups as I have a very *light* fretting techinique and find that almost any guitar I want to use must be setup accordingly 🙂

A good guitar tech will work with you to know how you like things set up. Or will do their "standard" setup and then fine tune it on the basis of your feedback.

I am loath to do my own setups as it would be a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. I know how to adjust the truss rod, and have occasionally given it a tweak (though experience has taught me to try a bit of extra humidity first), but the temptation is to use the trussrod to adjust action. Which you shouldn't. You should use the truss rod to adjust the relief in the neck - not the same thing.

I think this may be why some makers make it so hard for you to get at the business end of the truss rod - they don't want nosy players tweaking it when the action is (in the player's judgement) too low or too high.

Warwick

I think this may be why some makers make it so hard for you to get at the business end of the truss rod - they don't want nosy players tweaking it when the action is (in the player's judgement) too low or too high.
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No- it's a bad desing... Not bad, but annoying. I hate taking off a neck to do a truss. The problem comes in for a tech when the guitar is not his. He doesn't know the guitar as well as you would, so the neck could be taken off and put back on a few times.

Many of the people who ask me to set-up their guitars know how to do it, they just are too lazy/busy or in one case rich to do it themselves. But if you want to learn, ask a tech to show the basics.

As far as shop set-ups go, there is no excuse to let a guitar leave the sales floor before it is set-up. I still do a basic set-up on guitars I sell, and tell the customer if they want any changes done, to bring the guitar back in the next fews days and I'll sort it out for them.

Bob-Dubery

Warwick wrote: it's a bad desing... Not bad, but annoying. I hate taking off a neck to do a truss. The problem comes in for a tech when the guitar is not his. He doesn't know the guitar as well as you would, so the neck could be taken off and put back on a few times.

I wasn't thinking of Fender and having to remove necks. On my Morgan, for example, you can't see the adjustment point of the truss rod. It's behind a strut. Which might be partly because the luthier wanted that strut there and didn't want to drill a hole through it, but it does make it harder to peuter with the truss rod. You need a special wrench to do the job too. Larrivees are the same.

I know that on Lowden guitars life is deliberately made hard so that people don't tweak the truss rod just because they can.

Warwick wrote: As far as shop set-ups go, there is no excuse to let a guitar leave the sales floor before it is set-up. I still do a basic set-up on guitars I sell, and tell the customer if they want any changes done, to bring the guitar back in the next fews days and I'll sort it out for them.

In fact you should do a basic setup before the guitar goes on display. Then your chances of selling it are improved.

AlanRatcliffe

In fact you should do a basic setup before the guitar goes on display. Then your chances of selling it are improved.

That is so true. New sets of strings on guitars that have been on the floor for a few years might help move them too.

tokolos

The first bass guitar I bought back in the 90's had some huge issues, but I didnt know any better back then.
Uneven neck, buzzing frets etc etc.
So a few months later I decided that this instrument is in dire need of some professional attention.
I take it to a guitar tech and imagine my surprise when he tells me that this guitar is so bad there not much to be done,
since this model ( encore,from india ) doesnt even have a truss ! >☹
He did what he could, but at the end of the day it was nothing more than a prop guitar. :-[

Malkav

Well in light of the idea guitars should be setup before entering the floor I have a funny story. The Bothners in plumstead had two particularly nice RGs, one a RG470 and the other a RG1550 prestige, I sat down with the RG470 and gave it a full setup and a week later it was sold to a guy I had recommended the guitar to, so I wasn't too amazed by the fact that it had left.

Next up the RG1550 which had been sitting in the store for almost 6 years and was definitly an early 2000 model, took a good four days setting it up and tweaking it, put it on the floor having fell in love with the way it now sounded and played, got to work the next week and in a free moment when I was hoping to give it a try just to see how it was handling couldn't find it anywhere...turns out it had sold 3 days after being put back on the floor. This guitar had been there for a while and maybe it was just coincidence but I find it kinda ironic that a guitar that sat for so long sold after a setup.