Is this recording studio good enough?

epictring

Hey guys!

I'm going to be having a very exciting 2011, my band is heading for the studio to record a 4-5 track EP album.
Our drummers uncle owns a recording studio in Klerksdorp (can't remember the name) and we're going to it for a really good price. But he said himself the quality is not THE BEST but acceptable.

We know a band that recorded a few tracks there recently and I had a listen to the recordings, it's sounds good to me, but I'm not exactly a recording pro. We make Hard Rock and Punk Rock music (comparable to Paramore etc.) and they make Indie.

I'm not sure if this breaks forum rules, but if possible, can you guys please go listen to the tracks on the bands facebook page and tell me if it's good enough? We're getting professional replication and packaging (jewel cases, artwork and the works) for it at hybrid media solutions and plan to sell it everywhere we can and submit it to local radio stations etc.

Please take a look ?
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Atoms-of-Peace/112598828799395

Thanks a lot guys!

AlanRatcliffe

FB is crawling for me, so I didn't get to hear much.

Sounds more like a demo than a proper recording. The recording quality is not stellar - particularly drums, but at least usable. The mixes I heard were a bit rough and IMO it would need mastering to really be radio ready.

epictring

Thanks for the reply.

So if we were to record at a professional studio, can you give me an indication on how much a 5 track cd would cost?

I've also been looking at loud mouth studios, does anyone have any experience with them? And any idea what their costs are?

Thanks.

Mo-Facta

epictring wrote Thanks for the reply.

So if we were to record at a professional studio, can you give me an indication on how much a 5 track cd would cost?

I've also been looking at loud mouth studios, does anyone have any experience with them? And any idea what their costs are?

Thanks.

I listened to the first track. It's a rudimentary recording that sounds more like a demo. There is obviously no editing or major production happening. But the vibe may fit the band, I dunno. I think they could have done better, for sure, however.

Pro studios may charge from R1500 to R3500 depending on who it is and how nice the studio is. However, if you approach the relevant studio with a budget they'll usually tailor make some sort of package for you.

Cheers ?

DonovanB

I would say use the uncle's studio. Sure it sounds like a demo but tbh thats cos that singer's performance in the recording is below par. (and the hi-hat is WAY too loud.)

Mixing is a bit kak and it does need mastering but in today's environment none of that matters. If it's your drummer's uncle and you're both willing it seems the band and the engineer could use the practice so why not make a deal to get it right. But take your time. Too many bands try get it done far too quickly and the end result sounds like it has been rushed or paid very little for.

as long as the recording is clean and well mixed you can release it. Listen to The XX. They are so simple and it is effective. The modern music landscape is changing and some artists are trying to get the "amateur sounding" approach deliberately. Despite what owners and operators of big studios tell you, you CAN get a professional sounding recording from a small/cheap studio and using cheap gear. It all depends on what you can do with it.... (it's not the size of the boat... etc etc.)

I LOVE this song...

It is so basic and badly done but it is so flipping thought provoking and easy to listen to at the same time...

MIKA-the-better-one

My suggestion is that you change your name......... I dont know how aware you are of music overseas :-\ But there is a little band called "Radiohead" with a little singer called "Thom Yorke" who started a Supergroup with A little bassist called "Flea" as well as many more very well known musicians. They are called ............

ATOMS FOR PEACE

So if you have any hope or aspiration to be anything other than a small local band (which most bands do) you should definatly change your name , and not print those dual cases............ with Atoms of Peace
Aside form that the recordings are not good quality....... I na sense, but thanks to music these days, you can put that out, and just say thats the rough sound we were going for. If you were to re record, I would suggest you take the guitar lines (which were enjoyable) and play them through somehting that sounds better. I dont know what amps you used, or guitars, but that would make a big improvement, also fatten up the bass. But keep the reverbed vocals........ those were nice.

This may be a bit harsh but why are you printing CD's if you are a brand new band? And how many?

Aside from all that, get some proper photos done, if you are gonna fork out on a CD, and duplication (or replication) then you should get some photos that make you look like a band, and not a gang of hoodlums who escaped from school.............

Now please chnge your name ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atoms_for_Peace_(band)

Mo-Facta

Donovan Banks wrote I would say use the uncle's studio. Sure it sounds like a demo but tbh thats cos that singer's performance in the recording is below par. (and the hi-hat is WAY too loud.)

Mixing is a bit kak and it does need mastering but in today's environment none of that matters. If it's your drummer's uncle and you're both willing it seems the band and the engineer could use the practice so why not make a deal to get it right. But take your time. Too many bands try get it done far too quickly and the end result sounds like it has been rushed or paid very little for.

as long as the recording is clean and well mixed you can release it. Listen to The XX. They are so simple and it is effective. The modern music landscape is changing and some artists are trying to get the "amateur sounding" approach deliberately. Despite what owners and operators of big studios tell you, you CAN get a professional sounding recording from a small/cheap studio and using cheap gear. It all depends on what you can do with it.... (it's not the size of the boat... etc etc.)

I take issue with the above bolded bit and totally disagree. When you don't know what you're supposed to do and the person you're going to hire is a hobbyist, you can always do better by hiring a pro. Always. It goes doubly for mastering. If you've got no aspirations to take your band further or the recording is just for your own enjoyment and education, then sure, cut corners all you like.

But if you want to get the best for your money and get the best results possible, hire a pro. No doubt about it. I see it time and time again where bands cut corners by getting a friend with a computer, a presonus interface and couple of mics to record their stuff and the results ALWAYS suffer and the recording gets buried in time, not to mention the money they spent.

Also,

as long as the recording is clean and well mixed you can release it.

Exactly what "clean" and "well mixed" is, is up for debate. It's aesthetics. They are not mutually exclusive, either. You may have a "clean recording" but if the arrangement, tone and performance is bad, your mix is only going to be bad. There's no doubt about it. The other thing is that a clean recording and the process of mixing is not the be all and end all of a good result. My point is that the two requisites you describe are not what makes a good recording.

MIKA the better one wroteMy suggestion is that you change your name......... I dont know how aware you are of music overseas But there is a little band called "Radiohead" with a little singer called "Thom Yorke" who started a Supergroup with A little bassist called "Flea" as well as many more very well known musicians. They are called ............

ATOMS FOR PEACE

Mika, you misunderstood. The link on Facebook that the OP pointed us to is another band that recorded with his uncle. It is not the name of his band.

Cheers ?

costafonix

I agree with Alan and Mika's comments, a professional studio will definitely enhance your sound. But overall, I like the tracks, I particularly liked the vocals, very recognisable. Just a question, I can hear piano, guitar, bass, drums & vocals, so what do the rest of the dudes do in the band??? Well done, keep at it. :applause:

epictring

Hahahaha!

Yeah thanks for that last post..
Well as I said the band is just some people we know.
My band owns decent amps. I play through a vox vt100 that has a really nice tube sound to it, the other guitarist through a line 6 spider 3.. But maybe we can organize something better for him.

Btw The amps used there was a Roland cube I think.
Thanks for all the advice.
I guess we need some more saving if it's going to cost that much p/song.. :?

When do you suggest a band start producing EPs?
We were planning this for March.

Thanks again!

AlanRatcliffe

The band timing/tuning is a bit iffy in the Atoms clips I listened to, so the band isn't perfect. But for me, the sound of the drum tracks is what really divides the better studios from the rest, and they are also not great. There are also annoying things that should have been edited out or gated (e.g. the metronome beep in Young Romance).

On the other hand, a cheaper project studio can be ideal for getting used to recording (especially on a tight budget), so that by the time you do go into a better studio, you are more prepared as a band and can make better use of the more expensive time. Just don't plan on getting airtime with what is essentially a demo recording. It will be fine to hand out to venue owners to get gigs and to sell to fans (although even there the more professional the better), but you will end up hating hearing it yourselves - you become hypercritical and aware of every tiny flaw very quickly.

DonovanB

Mo Facta wrote I take issue with the above bolded bit and totally disagree. When you don't know what you're supposed to do and the person you're going to hire is a hobbyist, you can always do better by hiring a pro. Always. It goes doubly for mastering. If you've got no aspirations to take your band further or the recording is just for your own enjoyment and education, then sure, cut corners all you like.

You're not actually disagreeing with me. You're just spending money. Doing a good job with cheap gear is not a bad thing. Quite frankly, If I paid for a bad recording I would have a heart attack. Especially if I gave a poor performance that resulted in it being bad.
I'm also never saying don't be prepared. being prepared in studio is the best thing you can do. Hence why I reckon most bands fail. You need a LOT of time in a studio to get music right. It takes a HUGE budget to get a lot of studio time. Why not make use of very cheap, or free, studio time to get the bugs out of the system?

But if you want to get the best for your money and get the best results possible, hire a pro. No doubt about it. I see it time and time again where bands cut corners by getting a friend with a computer, a presonus interface and couple of mics to record their stuff and the results ALWAYS suffer and the recording gets buried in time, not to mention the money they spent.

How many bands do you know that can just throw money at it and "hire a pro" How many school bands do you know who can do that? Money won't solve every problem.
Genius engineers who do something different and Pioneer the next sound might not be hailed as good or charge the earth, they might be a hobbyist... Remember there was a time when people were hanged for thinking the world was round.

as long as the recording is clean and well mixed you can release it.
Exactly what "clean" and "well mixed" is, is up for debate. It's aesthetics. They are not mutually exclusive, either. You may have a "clean recording" but if the arrangement, tone and performance is bad, your mix is only going to be bad. There's no doubt about it. The other thing is that a clean recording and the process of mixing is not the be all and end all of a good result. My point is that the two requisites you describe are not what makes a good recording.

I guarantee you that there is a market for what you think is absolute nonsense and can quote a thousand examples.... Music on the whole is not about your or my opinion. Did you listen to the video I posted? Did you ever listen to Nirvana?

chris77

A bit of a side note. After a couple of weeks of Kid Rock in the car, I yesterday swopped it out with Wrestlerish, a local band that I had been wanting to check out for a while. The difference was quite remarkable. Firstly I had to turn the volume up. And even then I had to really pay attention to make out the detail bits. In contrast the kid rock sound was, well, fuller and more prominent. I have only listened to wrestlerish for the 10min drive home, and I think I'm going to like it. I just cann't help but think that if they recorded wit k.r's budget and in his studio, they would be even better. So ja, you get what you pay for. Your uncle might cut you a fine demo and when you listen to it, it will probably rock. As long as you don't play it back to back with a pro recording.

DonovanB

alternatively you could learn from the above post and try get a pro sounding recording out of a cheap studio...

Jericho

epictring wrote We make Hard Rock and Punk Rock music (comparable to Paramore etc.) and they make Indie (which I dislike).

Aren't Paramore considered indie?

?

epictring

NO...Don't think so..

I guess they're a couple of (unknown) genre's, I don't think even they know what they are, but that's what made them so successful.
We're comparable to they're Ignorance song in a way, but then again I don't know what genre we are ?. Hard rock or punk rock or something like that.

But whatever..I'm going to make a few calls to pro studios for prices, if it looks way too expensive for our reach, we'll have to go to the uncle.
But is it worth getting such a recording professional casing etc.? We were planning on selling it to fans, and a few writable cds we bought at GAME would look really..stupid.

shaundtsl

Have you not maybe thought about investing in some odds and ends and do a home recording? Then the money you spend is on equipment for keeps. There is a wealth of info on this forum about home recording setup and techniques.

That way, you are not pressed for time in a studio, you get to learn some new stuff (if you dont already know it) and the money you invest will be used to record 10 tracks and more eventually.

Then maybe make use of an engineer to just do the mastering etc?

Just a thought. :?

MIKA-the-better-one

The problem with pro recording in this country is that 90% of the pro's you hire are pretty much oblivious as to how a good record sounds.

For example you show up, and the engineer says, he wants to use drum triggers for a cleaner sound, he wants to run the guitars into a POD for effects and modelling, he wants to pitch correct every vocal :/

This may work for some bands, but most guys/ engineers lack the skill to adapt..... They have one sound they apply to all. I know this as I have heard bands go with some different material and the engineer does minimal effort ☹ And gives you a lifeless (yet clean) product.

Personally I prefer a Dirty record full of mistakes, but has attitude.

Its like Nirvana and their nevermind album....... Its pretty much perfectly recorded, and for me, and I think the band members it is not really the best sound for them. In Utero, they opted to go to Steve albini, who basically says "play your song, good next song" Its rough, it is abrasive but works.
BTW to record with Steve albini is cheaper still than recording woth the all famous in south africa Daryl Tour (Dear Reader, Harris Tweed, Zebra and Giraffe, Soweto Gospel choir) Its cheaper to fly to USA stay there, and record for 2 weeks, than to live here at home and record at SABC for 2 weeks!!! Thats the situation most SA bands are in, its to much.

So to get some mics, get some gear, and put alot of time in, should be and is and option. A good one.

Aside from that, there is no need for albums anymore unless you are a "big band" and even then its just a point to show off on.............

Rolling Stones, Led Zepplin, RHCP, Incubus, The Mars Volta, Sonic youth, Arctic Monkeys, QOTSA... and more recorded some of their BEST work in home studios, with under par gear, it was time and a bit of experience that the yused

epictring

It sounds like a great idea..

Any idea on how much good equipment will cost to produce a really decent recording?
I'm more than willing to learn the skills needed ?

And about albums, doesn't it play a vital role in promoting music?
I mean fan pays R40 for CD at gig (band makes money) > he listens to cd > He likes it and plays to his friends or whoever > Friends pitch up at next gig. > more fans!

shaundtsl

First get a decent sound card, I bought an M-Audio fast track pro off a guy on junkmail for R1000 which was a pretty good deal. With that you can lay down multiple tracks. For DAW, I use Reaper, which is *free-ish as an unlimited demo version. Reaper is a pretty decent easy to use DAW.

With these two things, you can do quite alot already. Then obviously some decent monintors and a mics (not sure on the costs etc of these things).

But I am sure Alan and the more experienced guys will shed so more light on getting the best bang for your buck and how to use the equipment to get a decent sound.

PeteM

I believe that it's not so much the studio nor the equipment in it, but the guy who is driving it... using the gear to it's maximum potential. This comes with experience and a few tweaks here and there (that don't have to take a lot of time with the right hands/ears) would improve the quality enormously. Maybe the studio is okayish for your purposes and what you need is an experienced producer... someone to call the shots, particlularly at the mix, because this is where I perceive there is a problem in this case.

I took the liberty of downloading 'Atoms' numbers and added a bit of EQ and compression and the band sounds completely different - tighter, with more balls - almost professional-sounding. ?

I won't post the work I've done on it because I don't want to infringe any copywrite. I just wanted to prove to myself that, even though I didn't have access to the individual tracks, I was able to improve the end result with a few minor adjustments to the complete mix.

I say that, although you may not be recording a product that can be aired on the radio and you're mainly producing it for your fans, then go for it... the production process, the CD design, the marketing and all. Going through the whole thing will give you invaluable experience in the process of record production. Good Luck. Take in any and all advice you can get, but never compromise on your individuality.