Gibson Official Distributor in SA

msch997 · 2010-12-22T19:57:18+00:00

I received an email yesterday from Marshall Music (I am on their mailing list), the email states that they are now the official importers and dealers in Gibs...

Gibson Official Distributor in SA

kp247

Like Frank Zappa said "Shut up and play your guitar"

You lot all seem to fuss about needless stuff! Just be grateful that there is an opportunity to get Gibson guitars in South Africa again. Just imagine the risks involved and huge financial layout required to bring the Gibson brand back to SA. Sure Gibson will have their own particular requirements and rules. If I was Gibson I would also enforce the removal of the Tokai copies from the store in question, knowing that they are sold without a copyright agreement.

All that we should hope for is that Gibson guitars will be sold at competitive prices and affordable to musicians in general and hopefully that this will drive the prices of the Tokai LP copies down to the levels where they belong.

?

PS: Will anyone bring in the Fender EVH Wolfgang range . . . . .please!

AlanRatcliffe

Norman86 wrote: What if i had gone to MM Woodnead to go check the tokai range of guitars?
I have before!! Now they aren't allowed to stock them anymore due to this!
Thats just stupid!

Not really. It's rare here, but in other countries, many stores are polarized to a few specific brands. It also creates an air of exclusivity when only a few stores can carry a particular product line. You might not like it, but Gibson are well within their rights to specify that certain competing brands are not stocked in the stores they sell to. If the store doesn't like it, they don't have to stock Gibson.

On the other hand, I gather this means that Marshall Cape, Midlands and Hillcrest will not have Gibsons either, so aside from those lucky enough to be in Gauteng, the Gibson fans are no better off than they were before.

I'm sure other stores will still carry the Tokais anyway, so you'll still be able to see them and play them. You just won't be able to compare them side-by-side in the same store.

Sean

Banditman wrote:
Sean wrote: Hmm, very nice. Is this a copy of something? because it doesn't look like it to me
You could probably see elements of the Music Man Axis, Hagstroms & certain Yamaha single cuts, but then there are only so many "classic" design shapes for guitars (without delving into extremes or novelties), and variations thereof.

aah, thanks. So would I be correct in saying it's not an exact replica of another guitar?

Banditman

Throwing in my Zim 5c.

I had an interesting chat with a Marshall insider recently (no I don't work for them) who said a few very interesting things.

Their comments on price are pretty much what's being quoted - roughly R20K for Standards, around R30-35K for Customs (whether black or white). Which are very fair compared to US prices plus import costs. If they stay there.

The "official dealer" part was illuminating. They've had to lay out a very fat chunk of cash even before being allowed to place an order which is then paid for separately. They cannot supply new guitars to any other branch of Marshall: those branches would need to go through the same process individually. They cannot supply new Gibsons to guys like Andy McGibbons either. Supplying new instruments to other branches = breach of contract. Used Gibsons will inevitably turn up in other shops, but only used ones.

To my mind, unless other agreements have been made, then that allows for any other non-Marshall dealer to jump on board if they can pay the admission price. Considering the amount suggested to me, that'll only be big retailers who can afford to carry & shift the stock.

It's unfortunately inevitable that the Borg - I mean Gibson's - lawyers have made removing Lance's product line a demand in return for their gracious presence. For Marshall I can understand the desire to have the Gibson brand back in-store, and the quandry as well. Given the way that Gibson have been pursuing manufacturers of anything remotely close to their product all over the globe for some time, it's no surprise.

Fortunately they can't dictate to the South African market (yet), and with their club membership being so pricey, it still leaves the door open for Lance to sell to many smaller retailers who want a guitar line of that type & quality.

Bob-Dubery

kp247 wrote:
All that we should hope for is that Gibson guitars will be sold at competitive prices and affordable to musicians in general and hopefully that this will drive the prices of the Tokai LP copies down to the levels where they belong.

Have you actually seen and played Tokais? They are very good guality instruments and IMO pricing is by no means exorbitant. The only signifcant difference between a good, new Gibson Les Paul and good, new Tokai Love Rock really is that the Tokai doesn't say "Gibson" on the headstock. So are they overpriced? That depends on how much the G... word is worth to you, but in terms of quality and compared to other instruments on the market the pricing is very good.

Banditman

kp247 wrote: All that we should hope for is that Gibson guitars will be sold at competitive prices and affordable to musicians in general and hopefully that this will drive the prices of the over-proced Tokai LP copies down to the levels where they belong.

If they stick to what's being punted then the prices will at last be more realistic. On the subject of the Tokais though: it may affect the high-end Premium series models here, but the Vintage series are already well priced at roughly 45-50% below the quoted new Gibson figures. Throw in the fact that they're made from the same materials to the same standards (no pun intended), and play just as well as any Gibson I've played, and I can't see how they're over-priced.

As for the Wolfgang? Couldn't agree more.

Mr-M

Sean wrote:
Norman86 wrote:
Hmm, very nice. Is this a copy of something? because it doesn't look like it to me

Looks a lot like the Hamer Talladega...

guidothepimmp

gibson obviously see tokai as a threat and rightly so...

tokai make top notch fiddles. some older tokais still have yhe reputation of beating gibson at their own game..

this competition is good for us consumers.

now if only ibby AR3000 and 5000 and the yamaha sg1000 and 2000 could also take yheir rightful place in the sa market.

we seem to worry a helluva lot with what the headstock says..

IceCreamMan

gibsons sure is pretty guitars...dayum ...getting GAS however i find no evidence of them making lefties on their site, anyone know whether they actually make lefties an if they been imported by MM?

thanks

I will be going to the launch next week, amped.

Bob-Dubery

guidothepimmp wrote: now if only ibby AR3000 and 5000 and the yamaha sg1000 and 2000 could also take yheir rightful place in the sa market.

we seem to worry a helluva lot with what the headstock says..

I think the headstock says all sorts of things - and that may be influenced by marketing.

IMO "Ibanez" tends to say "Metal" or even "Shred" and that's the market they really seem to be targeting in SA, even though their range is much broaded than that. The AR.... series Ibanii are good guitars, but they're going to go up against Gibson, Tokai, Epiphone etc and that's a different market from the one that Ibanez (or the local distributors) seem to be aiming at.

It may be different in a bigger market.

guidothepimmp

i agree to a point.

there is def a market for ar series guits in sa and they could quite easily compete with gibson and tokai... reason they dont though is ibanez or their dealers have flooded the market with their superstrTs.

ibanez market their george benson model quite well and they have some great jazz boxes yet as you rightly say people hear ibanez and think metal.

kp247

X-rated Bob wrote:
kp247 wrote:
All that we should hope for is that Gibson guitars will be sold at competitive prices and affordable to musicians in general and hopefully that this will drive the prices of the Tokai LP copies down to the levels where they belong.
Have you actually seen and played Tokais? They are very good guality instruments and IMO pricing is by no means exorbitant. The only signifcant difference between a good, new Gibson Les Paul and good, new Tokai Love Rock really is that the Tokai doesn't say "Gibson" on the headstock. So are they overpriced? That depends on how much the G... word is worth to you, but in terms of quality and compared to other instruments on the market the pricing is very good.

Yes yes yes! This ground has been covered many times before on this forum. My view has always been that I'm convinced that even the "high end" Tokai LP copies are built at a fraction of the cost in the east (various locations) compared to their original counterparts in the US, what with cheap labour, cheap manufacturing costs, lenient taxation laws, existing guitar factories that build a variety of guitar brands etc etc

Without trying to p*** anyone off I have to compare Tonerider pickups as an example (yes, I own a few sets) These pickups are manufactured in a factory in China that was set up by an Englishman who also distributes another high-end "hand wound" pickup brand. Tonerider pickups are incredibly copies of classic Gibson and Fender designs down to exact dimensions and specs, yet they are being sold locally at a fraction of the cost of an original. This is the way it should be! There is thus no reason that "high end" Tokais should be expensive and like the Tonerider brand they are not imported from across US or European borders.

Peace everyone! ?

ezietsman

kp247 wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote:
kp247 wrote:
All that we should hope for is that Gibson guitars will be sold at competitive prices and affordable to musicians in general and hopefully that this will drive the prices of the Tokai LP copies down to the levels where they belong.
Have you actually seen and played Tokais? They are very good guality instruments and IMO pricing is by no means exorbitant. The only signifcant difference between a good, new Gibson Les Paul and good, new Tokai Love Rock really is that the Tokai doesn't say "Gibson" on the headstock. So are they overpriced? That depends on how much the G... word is worth to you, but in terms of quality and compared to other instruments on the market the pricing is very good.
Yes yes yes! This ground has been covered many times before on this forum. My view has always been that I'm convinced that even the "high end" Tokai LP copies are built at a fraction of the cost in the east (various locations) compared to their original counterparts in the US, what with cheap labour, cheap manufacturing costs, lenient taxation laws, existing guitar factories that build a variety of guitar brands etc etc

Without trying to p*** anyone off I have to compare Tonerider pickups as an example (yes, I own a few sets) These pickups are manufactured in a factory in China that was set up by an Englishman who also distributes another high-end "hand wound" pickup brand. Tonerider pickups are incredibly copies of classic Gibson and Fender designs down to exact dimensions and specs, yet they are being sold locally at a fraction of the cost of an original. This is the way it should be! There is thus no reason that "high end" Tokais should be expensive and like the Tonerider brand they are not imported from across US or European borders.

Peace everyone! ?

I'm not so sure it is that cheap to manufacture guitars in Japan. Look at the MIJ ESP and Ibanez guitars. They command some pretty hefty prices too. Your argument is valid for Korean, Chinese, Indian manufactured goods but I'm not convinced about the Japanese products.

guidothepimmp

agreed. korea though isnt a haven for budget guitars.

china..indonesia and india are. korea does the bulk of the medium to high ra/ge guits of various brands with japan handling the hihj end jobs/.. eg esp.. ibby prestige and j custom etc..

guidothepimmp

just to clarify.. thats not to say guits comng from china indonesia and india make crap guits. thats not true.. MOST budget guits are made there. thats all

Bob-Dubery

kp247 wrote: Yes yes yes! This ground has been covered many times before on this forum. My view has always been that I'm convinced that even the "high end" Tokai LP copies are built at a fraction of the cost in the east (various locations) compared to their original counterparts in the US, what with cheap labour, cheap manufacturing costs, lenient taxation laws, existing guitar factories that build a variety of guitar brands etc etc

So what are you saying? Guitars made in the East should be capped as regards price? We should subsidise American-made guitars by being willing to pay a higher price?

I'm actually not sure it costs that much less money to build a guitar in Japan to the same standards of a similar guitar made in the USA - same standards, same woods, comparable components etc etc.

I think the danger is in equating all Les Paul copies. They're not all equal. Some are crap, just being shaped and laid out like a Les Paul, some are made from top quality woods and components and assembled to a very high standard.

kp247

X-rated Bob wrote: So what are you saying?

Bob, you're not listening! I'm simply saying that an exact copy of a historic Gibson Les Paul guitar is just that - a copy, and if it's made anywhere in the east it will be cheap to make. Forget about wood and all that vintage appointment cr**. My observations only apply to this specific Gibson thread. I will tell you that I will never pay the price asked for these copies. It has to say Gibson Les Paul on the headstock. The logo is of utmost importance to me. Others may differ, but that's my opinion!

Ibanez, ESP, Cort and a host of other eastern manufacturers make incredible guitars, and in my view they can price them any which way they like, since they are mostly original designs. If I buy a Les Paul copy I'll buy an ESP Ltd Deluxe guitar (EC-1000). They are Les Paul style guitars and in my view they are infinitely more playable and better sounding than some Gibson guitars, however they are still original, just based on well known designs.

Peace! Again! ?

ezietsman

So kp247, you are saying thus, if say Foster vd Merwe builds you a custom Les Paul replica, just like a Custom Shop Gibson but it says Foster and not Gibson on the headstock, you won't pay him more than what say an Epiphone will cost? But you WILL pay a good price for an ESP that was made in Japan? Because its not a Les Paul? strange argument.

Bob-Dubery

kp247 wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote: So what are you saying?
Bob, you're not listening! I'm simply saying that an exact copy of a historic Gibson Les Paul guitar is just that - a copy, and if it's made anywhere in the east it will be cheap to make. Forget about wood and all that vintage appointment cr**.

It's not crap at all. It's very important. You seem to have fallen into the trap that I mentioned earlier - copies are copies are copies. They're not. Even Gibsons aren't all equal - being made to different specs, different levels of QC etc. A top of the line Love Rock is a very different proposition than a cheap Vietnamese LP look alike built as cheaply as possible, and the pricing reflects that. Some would assert that top of the line Love Rocks are better built than a lot of Gibsons, and that buck for buck you get more in terms of components and craftsmanship than you do from Gibson/Epiphone.

Assuming that you think that Gibson is still Gibson - it's not owned by the Gibson family anymore and was even owned by brewers for a while.

IMO very few of the iconic guitar brands have their DNA intact. Martin does, I'm less sure about all others.

kp247

ezietsman wrote: So kp247, you are saying thus, if say Foster vd Merwe builds you a custom Les Paul replica, just like a Custom Shop Gibson but it says Foster and not Gibson on the headstock, you won't pay him more than what say an Epiphone will cost? But you WILL pay a good price for an ESP that was made in Japan? Because its not a Les Paul? strange argument.

Foster vd Merwe ? ??? Enlighten me!

I wouldn't pay anything for a copy, even if it was built by someone, and even if they put a fake Gibson logo on the headstock. The point is that there are real Gibson guitars available in SA now, guitars with real serial numbers that makes them authentic and traceable, so why bother. I'd love to own real Gibson guitars, not copies! It means something to me!