Loopers

FruitarGeek

I'm looking into getting a looper for my pedal board collection, but I really really need it to perform a certain (hands free) function. So those of you who own a looper, please let me know if its possible.

Ok, so I need the looper to be able to loop a verse phrase from an acoustic guitar which must be stored or at least on some type of 'standby' mode where I can go back to that bank and it will play again. Not only that, so once that verse is recorded on say a certain bank I want to be able to loop another chorus phrase on a different bank and that must loop immediately giving me time to swap to an electric guitar in which case I can then stop it. And then after the chorus with the electric I want that previous verse acoustic phrase to kick back into play.

This is quite a story, but Im hoping its possible, Ive looked through quite a lot of youtube clips and they dont specifically answer this question.

The 2 top loopers Im considering is the Boss RC-20XL and the Digitech Jamman stereo/

What do you guys think?

Ray

You gonna do this in a live situation? Be careful because I think you might break some bones and stuff hey.

FruitarGeek

Ray wrote: You gonna do this in a live situation? Be careful because I think you might break some bones and stuff hey.

Definately for Live. I know a great deal of tap dancing may be required, but as long as its hands free. There is a part of a song that I have to change to electric, but as I am the only guitarist I have to keep the loop going.

joel wrote: Or , you can do what Albert Frost does....he has 2 completely separate pedal boards with an RC- 2 looper in each board.....one for accoustic guitar and one for his strat. :?

I hadn't actually considered 2 RC-2's, that would seem to work, but a little excessive if you ask me. What Albert is doing is exactly what I need to do, I dont know why he doesnt just use an AB guitar switcher though :-\

Bob-Dubery

FruitarGeek wrote: I'm looking into getting a looper for my pedal board collection, but I really really need it to perform a certain (hands free) function. So those of you who own a looper, please let me know if its possible.

Ok, so I need the looper to be able to loop a verse phrase from an acoustic guitar which must be stored or at least on some type of 'standby' mode where I can go back to that bank and it will play again. Not only that, so once that verse is recorded on say a certain bank I want to be able to loop another chorus phrase on a different bank and that must loop immediately giving me time to swap to an electric guitar in which case I can then stop it. And then after the chorus with the electric I want that previous verse acoustic phrase to kick back into play.

The problem with the RC2 is going to be switching banks. You should be able to do that with the add-on pedals that Boss make. This is explained in the manual.

HOWEVER

You still only get cycling through the stored phrases. IE if the RC2 is looping on stored phrase 3 and you hit the pedal. you will go to phrase 4. Next time you hit the button you will go to phrase 5 etc. So in your case you might need to record some phrases twice.

There's another pitfall though. You might find that you have to isolate the RC2 from the rest of your FX path. Your our acoustic phrase will be coloured by the amp settings and any effects between the RC-2 and the amp. If that's what you want then no problem.

Really what you're describing is a collection of backing tracks. Maybe there are cheaper, easier to control, ways of doing this.

Ray

Backing tracks arent done live.

FruitarGeek

Yea I appreciate the idea of backtrack but as Ray said, it has to be live. Ive always been the kinda guy that is annoyed when he hears backtracks or samplers played throughout a show, so im trying to avoid doing that.

Bob-Dubery

FruitarGeek wrote: Yea I appreciate the idea of backtrack but as Ray said, it has to be live. Ive always been the kinda guy that is annoyed when he hears backtracks or samplers played throughout a show, so im trying to avoid doing that.

So you want to record those phrases on the fly? Set them up whilst you're playing and THEN swap guitars?

If so then it gets very difficult. You'd need at least one extra limb I'd think - and lots of manipulating of the pedals. Even if you went the two looper route you'd have to switch one off and switch the other on simultaneously.

Easier option: become mega-rich, hire lots of roadies.

FruitarGeek

Extra Limbs would help ?

But no, I think I may have confused the scenario, let me try again.

Say we have a 5.00min song. At like 30seconds into the song, we in the verse, now I just want to record one cycle (4 bars) of the verse, to be played later, I wont need it playing back immediately. I just want to record it now for the sake of having it in time with the drummer (provided he will be in time between now and the end of the song). Ok so at 30s I record that verse loop and leave it at that. Then it comes to chorus at say 4.00min, and now I need to change to electric after the chorus for the bridge. The chorus is only 8 bars (2 cycles) so I will record the first 4 bars, loop the last 4 bars of the chorus, and whilst its looping I quickly swap to my electric. In which case I get the electric out and I can turn that loop off and jam hard. After the electric part, I need to use the acoustic verse recorded earlier, the reason for this is I cant swap back to acoustic cause I wont have enough time, so instead I will just loop that part recorded.

Is this making sense?

I looked at the Digitech Jamman Stereo, and it looks like it has a bank up and bank down footswitch, but now I just need to know if I can record at say bank 10 and then leave that, go to bank 11, record and loop that and then stop it, and then reactivate bank 10.

Ray

Have you taken a look at the Akai Headrush? I read an interview with the Russian Circles oke and he reckoned the thing was great.

AlanRatcliffe

I'm no looper expert, but I'm pretty sure storing parts for later recall is possible with any of the better loopers. I've seen Shawn Lane call up looped phrases to harmonise with some of what he was doing (with Jonas Hellborg & the Vinayakram Brothers). I've also seen guys loop verse and chorus parts and call them up at the relevant times.

It might be a good idea to let the looper do the repeat the first time you play it anyway - that will set the audience up so they understand what's happening when it happens again later in the song while you swap to electric. Otherwise they'll probably assume it's backtracks.

When it comes to looping both acoustic and electric, it's easy to do both if you think of any stereo looper as two mono ones. I was doing it the other day with the simple Hardwire DL8 delay/looper and one of my piezo'd electrics. Left input and output was part of my piezo FX chain, while the right in/out was part of the electric chain. Switch to piezos/PA, play a part, loop it. Then switch to magnetics/amp and loop that on top. Then switch to both and play a third part on top. Was tons-o-fun. ?

FruitarGeek

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I've also seen guys loop verse and chorus parts and call them up at the relevant times.

Great. I think thats what I am looking for, you wouldn't happen to know what looper that was?

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: It might be a good idea to let the looper do the repeat the first time you play it anyway - that will set the audience up so they understand what's happening when it happens again later in the song while you swap to electric. Otherwise they'll probably assume it's backtracks.

Yes, great idea actually. I saw Dear Reader once, and they used lots of loops but they explained to us that they would, and it made it seem that much more genuine. Great tip.

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: When it comes to looping both acoustic and electric, it's easy to do both if you think of any stereo looper as two mono ones. I was doing it the other day with the simple Hardwire DL8 delay/looper and one of my piezo'd electrics. Left input and output was part of my piezo FX chain, while the right in/out was part of the electric chain. Switch to piezos/PA, play a part, loop it. Then switch to magnetics/amp and loop that on top. Then switch to both and play a third part on top. Was tons-o-fun. ?

But I will probably be using a 3 way ABC guitar channel selector (Fender, Epiphone and Acoustic), so I don't think it will be possible for me atleast to plug acoustic into separate stereo input.

Ray wrote: Have you taken a look at the Akai Headrush? I read an interview with the Russian Circles oke and he reckoned the thing was great.

Thats a delay tho right? Im not really looking for a delay looper, I got the DD-20 that has a similar function, but doenst do it that well. Thanks though.

Ray

I didnt think sxo but anyway maybe. I thought it just offerred the delay as well on top of being a looper. have you scouted around:
http://www.loopers-delight.com/loop.html

AlanRatcliffe

I think thats what I am looking for, you wouldn't happen to know what looper that was?

I don't, sorry. I have the sneaking suspicion that all of the better loopers can do it though. Follow Ray's link above to loopers delight - they are the best source for any kind of info on the different makes and their capabilities.

guitarboy2828

Be careful going this route with a drummer, because generally timing DOES change in a song, that is just inevitable, unless you're playing to a click track. So, the verse you recorded way back when, will probably be a slightly slower later on and will sound pretty bad! :/

Why don't you rather get a acoustic guitar stand thing, like Santana often uses.. ? Seems like a much better way to do it ?

FruitarGeek

guitarboy2828 wrote: Be careful going this route with a drummer, because generally timing DOES change in a song

I hear you, Well he plans on playing with a click track, so we will see. But I think most advanced Loopers come with a tap tempo function to set the loop.

zohn wrote: I haven't seen/heard too many artists using a looper, but I've certainly seen a DVD of Phil Keaggy, - he seems to have mastered the application.... He uses a Digitech JamMan

Wow, thanks for the link, really appreciate it. Ive watched a good batch of the video's primarily to see his looping style, which is phenomenal, but then I really liked his style that I just watched it for the heck of it. Btw, does he really have the Digitech Jamman, cause sources tell me its the oldschool Lexicon JamMan

Wizard

The DD-7 is described as a delay / looper.
The RC-2 as a looper.

Is the looping on the DD-7 very primitive?
How does one choose?

AlanRatcliffe

Wizard wrote: Is the looping on the DD-7 very primitive?

Yes. Fun to muck around with on occasion, but that's it.

How does one choose?

Which do you need more? A delay or a looper?

Ray

Well, I've got a dd-7 and yip it's a heck of a lot of fun to much around with. But lemme tell you, it's a real time loop of a single phrase as far as I can see. And once you disable that loop it's gone, never to return. This is what I see in the little bit that I've mucked about.

FruitarGeek

Well to answer your question about loopers vs delay. I have the DD-20 which is a delay with looping function, and the looper IMO is merely adequate, it does the job.

I went to Paul Bothners a week ago to try out the RC-2 and although that small pedal couldn't do the exact looping function I needed it to do, it kicked the DD-20 looping function in the ass. It was crystal clear, easier to use and more on time (or at least seemed that way). So I would be hesitant about those using delay loopers.

Skylark

My experience with the 2 widely available contenders is :

Digitech Jamman - Awesome no limits on time - easy transfer of recordings to PC - just take out the memory card

Boss RC20XL - Only bonus over Digitech is quantize.
As long as you play in time to the beat , when you press record stop it automatically cuts the recording exactly to the end/beginning of the bar.
It makes it very easy to make perfectly looping recordings.

With the digitech you have to play quick draw foot work so literally when you press the record stop it stops right there.
That feature may be beneficial to some! ?